I'm with Bob. Although I might have higher tolerance for a roughly two ton Challenger, since it's essentially a full sized, 5 passenger car. But I am completely intolerant of that kind of weight in a "pony car".

When I look at a GT500 I almost wince sometimes. It looks good - but like that girl which requires a 1/4 inch thick coat of make up on her face - I know what's underneath.

BTW, the 4.7 in the Challenger is news to me too. I'd be interested in the specific details on the business case on that, since as has been stated, the 5.7 Hemi has lower manufacturing costs that the OHC 4.7.

 

Well, it's a big pig, but SRT has managed to make it dance.

Given that it's basically a big heavy family sedan, the SRT Charger's performance, handling, and braking is pretty amazing.

 

I can't bring myself to call it a "pony car". I'm looking at it as a Charger alternative -- a hi-po big family car with styling that pushes my old-Mopar-fan buttons. It's not going to be anybody's idea of light, and it's not going to be anybody's idea of small. I wish it were otherwise, but given where Chrysler has been since 1974 I'm happy we're getting this.

 

I see it the same way - essentially a full sized Mopar coupe.

 

1) According to those in the know, the program keeps getting pushed forward more and more...every quarter or so the debut pushes forward 30 days. The fact that I can order these in February was a shock to me...originally we were talking mid-summer...therefore, I'd say they're bumping it forward at least a little

2) Admittedly, he did say that the vehicles would be "SRT level" in terms of equipment and price...meaning high 30s and loaded...pretty much equipped one way like a GTO. Could be the debut model being called "R/T" is correct...

3) Keep it till it doesn't sell? That means they won't make a "new" Challenger after the current? Seems odd to me...

 

1. I also believe Chrysler stated last fall that Challenger will be available shortly after the production model's unveiling at Chicago, so I also don't see any change in schedule.

2. Yep. It does make sense.

3. I've also heard the Challenger SRT will essentially have the wrath of Godzilla under the hood. Chrysler's SRT division has no artificial restrictions on the power their engines produce or the handling capabilities of their cars outside of being unusually durable and able to carry a warranty despite abuse. These are the same people who essentially put race car components on a luxury car, created the ultimate ricer (Neon SRT4), found a way to pull 300 horsepower out of a 4 banger(Caliber SRT4), & stuck a 500 horsepower Viper motor in a pickup truck... and made all of them track carvers. It'd probally be a mistake to doubt what they can do.

4. Yep. From the start.

5. I'm actually surprised about this. I'd expect the new V6.

6. Yes, the V6 will be used to kick volume up, or if people demand it, or if Chrysler needs to get CAFE numbers up.

I do have to break this agreement streak where you say the purpose of the Challenger is to validate the flex assembly line, which I disagree. Chrysler isn't likely going to create a whole new car as some sort of assembly line machinary test. The tail doesn't wag the dog.

The flex assembly line is the reason why the Challenger can finally exist, not the other way around.
Challenger was originally sold to management as a low volume, moderately high priced V8 only sports coupe. It's business model was very much like the Holden Monaro's (which found it more profitable to drop the base supercharged V6 model because volume was so low it actually cost more to make the cheaper car), and outside of the V8, the SRT-8, and the inevitable Daytona and other special models, that was going to be it. Chrysler even initially planned to sell it only a few years, with the rest dependent on public acceptance.


The latest is that Chrysler plans to expand the line and make a bit more commitment to Challenger beyond being just a short term, low production niche car. I can tell you the plan's changed, but I'd only be speculating as to the actual reason why.

My 3 guesses:

* The 2nd biggest selling sports coupe (the Monte Carlo) is gone, leaving a huge opening.
* There's new, higher fuel economy standards pending.
* Chrysler's marketing showed that the public will tear through showroom walls to get a smaller V8 or V6 "civilian version" of the Challenger if it establishes itself early on as a high powered muscle car.


BTW: GM and Chrysler seem to have some sort of below-the-radar competition brewing between Camaro and Challenger. Whenever the subject drifts to Camaro, Chrysler inside guys tend to love to point out that despite both Camaro and Challenger debuting at the same auto show as concepts, Chrysler is getting their car out well before GM's Camaro and will be packing serious heat. GM on the other hand pulled a stunt like they famously did at the Woodward cruise, and Chrysler's plans to put some secret, godawfully powerful engine into the top Challenger seems to be a contributing to the "Super Camaro", and GM being unusually secretive in protecting the engine's likely power output.

 

All i know is that is a fun time to be a Muscle car fan. This is just TOO much fun!

 

I like the sound of this. I think we could throw the Mustangs future plans into the mix too. Competition that leads to more power at a lower price is good in my book.

 

The thing about the GTO is that is and never has been associated with being a light car. It has always been a fairly heavy GT car with a powerful motor and comfortable ride. On the other hand, a ~4000 lb Mustang is crazy. A mustang has always been on the lighter side and considered a pony car. The GT500 could be considered a clydesdale (huge horse) car.

 

Yup. Which is why I never had a problem with the GTO's 3700# curb weight. GTOs were always larger coupes. If you wanted/expected something lighter, the GTO would never be your car, nor was it intended to be.

Actually, 3700-3800#'s should still be considered light compared to others in its class (Cobra, upcoming Challenger).

 

Well, yes. In order to wade into this generation of flex, they needed a new model that didn't share wheelbase and tophat with the LXs, that could be rolled out slowly, and that could scale to higher volumes if the business required it. The fact that the gearheads inside the company wanted to build a full-bore retro musclecar off the LX architecture just happened to dovetail with those needs nicely.

 

My wagon weighs 4400 lbs and is quite spirited. With a 392 500 hp Hemi, a 3800 lb coupe could be fun to drive.

 

I also agree that the GTO never was light - but does not change my point.

FYI, in 2004 (the year the GTO came out, and the only two years that both the GTO and Cobra were produced), the Cobra was ~60 lbs lighter than the GTO.

Of course, the overweight pig known as the GT500 is a whole nuther thing.

Bob

 

i know i have ZERO interest in anything above 3500 anymore myself... just doesnt make sense for something you want to go fast.. easier to break things, harder to make quicker.. etc.. just stupid...

 

Ya, what he said.