Huh? I think you could say I'm pretty damn impulsive for an old geezer when you look at how much money I've dumped into my cars...

 

So what.

Camaro will have "best in class" power and at a "Chevy price". It won't be marketed in a complete vacuum populated only by Corvette. It will have real performance competition to contend with...and not just from inside Chevrolet.

I think $45,000 is abit high for the '06 Cobra. I believe that it will come in under $40K. 400hp SE Mustangs will go for waaay under that. The SRT-8 Charger...with 425 hp...will be way under 40K also....more like mid 30's.

I think a version of Camaro...with power in the 400-450 range...will be available for $32-$35,000. That will be the sweet spot for this segment by decade's end.

 

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this on this one. I don't think Chevy will be able to sell the base Vette in your scenario. They might as well just populate the showroom and lots with Z/28s and Z06s and a few verts. I can't imagine Chevy selling a Camaro that'll outrun the vette for $10K less.

As far as the '07 Cobra, I hope your right. It all depends on how upscale they really want to take the Cobra. And on how many SE stangs there are to bridge the gap from GT to Cobra.

 

Don't lose sight of the fact that Corvette and Camaro are completely different cars! It's the same as a Ford GT essentially sharing it's blown 500+ HP V8 with a Mustang Cobra costing roughly 2/3rds less...hmm who's going to buy the GT in that scenario? Well, if you have the cash and you want the GT then that's the only car you'll be interested in, right????

 

You guys worry like a bunch of old women in a social security line. Any base V8 that the Camaro gets will stomp a mud hole in that years Mustang GT. GM has too many engine options to not make that the case. Just to prove the point, the Grand Prix autocross had a 350 HP 5.3L. I am willing to bet the Camaro SS comes in at 330-345 HP easy with the 5.3L. You think you are getting more than that in a base V8, someone needs to get you off the crack. For those whining about wanting a 6.0L base...get over it. We are talking .7L...it's not a big deal. The base V8 competes with Mustang GT..not the Ford GT. Only place it matters is if you want to over compensate for a small pee pee


Also some food for thoght....

In 2008 GM will launch the all new GTO, and Zeta Chevy and Pontiac sedans. The GTO will have a 6.0L and a 6 speed auto from the start (which may be a paddle shift deal..have to do more research). The sedans on the other hand are getting V6's (proably 245HP 3.9L's) and 4 speed autos. So...knowing this..try and think where Camaro falls..especially if it is supposed to beat these cars to market. Would you give it the 6 speed auto...or cut costs and go with a 4 speed in the base V8.

Also I have yet to see proof of the 5.3L in the Camaro yet like the info above....however I am fairly certain it is the base V8.
We may be in the next decade before we see the full fruits of what Zeta can do.



I have it on good information that the Chevy and Pontiac Zeta sedan will launch with only a V6

 

I knew GM worked slow but dayyyum that's a long way off!!!

 

 

However that's not the case. The Cobra will get a downrated version of the racing dry sump 5.4 the GT has. It will be wet sump and may even get the 3V SOHC head. The Ford GT official rating is now 550hp and most acknowledge it's closer to 600hp. The Ford GT will still destroy the next Cobra in any measure of performance. It's a legit 10sec car.

An LS7 Camaro or even a 450hp 6.2L Camaro will outrun a Vette packing the 400hp LS2.

 

Z/28's, handily outran BASE Corvette's from 1967-1974.

 

Yup those were the good ol days. The Camaro team's budget included developing the motor combinations that would be offered. Emissions certification? What the hell is that? CAFE? Huh? Marketing? Who gives a damn what those pencil necks think? This Z/28 kicks ***. Build it.

It's the day of the corporate V8, product tiering, and beancounter micromanagement. And marketing says (anyone who works in a big corporation KNOWS marketing makes the final call) the Camaro SHALL NEVER show up the Vette.

And it makes sense, unfortunately. Back in the era you're referring too, GM owned 60% of the car market. In fact GM voluntarily capped production in response to concerns from the government about becoming a monopoly. GM pretty much owned America and it could afford to basically let it's divisions run free.

Now in today's hypercompetitive market, every marketing gimmick that adds to the bottom line is valuable. Does anyone actually believe that consolidating engine lines down to a few variations of the same V8 and cross shopping the same chassis to multiple divisions makes those cars more attractive to the consumer? Hell no. But the cost savings far outweigh the lost sales.

And product tiering works. No matter what you may believe, making the consumer bend over to get that last 200MHz or 50hp makes companies a ton of money.

 

Of course Camaro will never show up Corvette. I'm just saying that I wouldn't be surprised to see some overlap between the upper range of the Camaro and lower range of Corvette.

Just some food for thought, here..............

I'd doubt the Corvette Team will control the Camaro program next time, like they did last time.

 

The engine choices should work out to something like with the 4th gens. The V6 should be at 250hp, the Z28 gets a 5.3L V8 with 350hp, and the SS gets the 6.0L LS2 with 400hp.

 

How do you figure that? (Not that Camaro would actually get the LS7).

LS2 = 400hp
LS7 = 500+ hp.

 

Some things have changed there pardner.

Sedans are still 2008, but there seems to have been a change in engine plans. Another change is that coupes are now due for 2007.

Why?
#1 My guess is the success of the Hemi at Chrysler.
#2 Has to do with the Monaro.

Actually, the Z28 350 of the 70s was barely a camshaft profile different from Corvette's L82. For all purposes, it was the same engine. Camaro's team had virtually ZERO budget beyond restyling from 1972 on (sounds familiar). By then, everyone was downsizing "Pony cars" or preparing to kill them. Ford was working on the Mustang II & GM was working on the Monza.

All cars had to pass emmisions certification starting in 1968. Congressional action to take lead out of gasoline killed high compression engines. Sky high insurence rates killed high performance cars (and opened up the "near-performance" class), and finally, when OPEC turned off the spigiots in '73-74, afterwards, that's when CAFE was enacted.

There's alot of misconceptions about the 70s, and the belief that fuel economy & emissions killed performance cars is not accurate. Performance was a casualty of the marketplace before "restrictive" emissions standards and CAFE was passed & kicked in.

The next Mustang Cobra (which probally will be renamed Mustang SVT) will likely cost around the same as the current Mustang Cobra in constant dollars. Factoring in inflation, that should put it in the $36-37,000 range.

Anyone thinking that horsepower alone is going to dictate a increase in price, let me divert your attention to the 400 horse supercharged Cobra that came in at nearly the same price as the old DOHC previous version when it 1st came out.

 

Well there was more. the LT-1/L-82 had a bigger cam and better heads, intake, compression, exhaust, forged internals and 4 bolt main block over the L48/LM-1.

The point is, that when the LT-1/L-82 was in the Camaro...it was standard equipment in the Z/28. The same motors were an uplevel performance option in the Corvette.