That would be a great philosophy; if the goal was to drive all business offshore.

 

So basically you're saying that ALL factory workers should be treated like CBS, Manpower, Brownlee, Adecco temps? Where the maximum possible wage is $9/hr. & there're no benefits? BTW these are the people I'm talking about who can't afford healthcare. IF they're lucky their agency will offer enrollment in a group plan after a year, but not all agencies offer it. 1 of the principles this country was founded on was the promise that if you worked hard, REGARDLESS of your profession, you could achieve the American Dream! Now the attitude is "You can have the dream ONLY if you're a doctor, lawyer, engineer, et al"! Not everyone can be 1 of those things so what, we go to class system where the plebians are doomed to an existence in poverty? And if you're not willing to reward someone who is willing to work for years or even decades for the same company with raises & benefits, Then it won't matter if we ship all of our manufacturing jobs overseas, because eventually no one here will want to work in them anymore! They'll just have a bunch of kids & go on welfare because they'll make more money that way than working in the plant.

 

Well said.

It's easy to criticize others and state they don't deserve the same personal freedoms that you do. But do they necessarily deserve any less than you simply because they don't have the same level of education as you? They may in fact have more commonsense than you...

Some of the biggest fu##ers of the country are educated clowns. Invariably it's these clowns who always seem to have the best of everything... even if they don't have to work hard for their keep. How is that just?

 

So, the employees of a company that actually made the product that generated the millions upon millions of dollars of profits for decades, made those huge CEO bonuses possible, and paid the stock owners dividends don't deserve to get a slice of the pie? A pie made possible by their own sweat and efforts? Hmmm, interesting concept- If all companies took that tack, I wonder who would be buying the houses, appliances, cars, and what not that keeps America's economic engine running-

Guess we all are just supposed to be slaves- the common worker, fodder to keep the elite well fed and entertained- And here all these years I thought America was NOT about social class, the Lords and Ladies, Dukes and Earls and Barons- well, except for the Keddedys and Rockefellers-
Thanks for clearing that up for me- Know I know that, since I have no benefit for my company doing better or worse, why bother doing any more than I am forced to- I should just do the minimum to get by- since it seems that I am only allowed to be paid the minimum to get me to work-

You want an intelligent, motivated work force that may come up with better ways to make a product or save a buck, who are educated and willing to take on new skills, well, you should be willing to pay for quality- or I guess we can all just drive Yugos and call each other comrade-

 

If it had been a reasonable slice and one that had the flexibility to change with changing circumstances that would have been fine; the UAW, on the other hand, demanded promises that could never change and rather than a slice; they wanted the whole pie and some of other people's pies as well.

Unfortunately, week-kneed management gave in most of the time instead of demanding reasonable contracts.

 

This is where I disagree with you
They don't want the whole pie as you say.

Wages & benefits of labor only make up 10% of the costs. That number is being used by everybody on the Hill yesterday & today.
What makes up the other 90%? Why isn't anyone looking there first?
And the unions have made concessions: in 2005, they opened up the contract. They made more concessions in 2007. And they just voted to open up the contract AGAIN for more concessions. Don't say they're not flexible. They may not be as flexible as YOU'D like, but who are you to make that determination? You may say as a taxpayer, that you have a right to decide what is flexible and what is not, but really, YOU personally are not qualified.



And to deride a line worker for making a decent wage. What has happened to this country? The word "elietist" has been bandied about an awful lot lately but it certainly applies here. Those that have college educations really feel that those without should not have a good paying job nor should they be able to partake in the American dream.
Ya know, not everybody can attend college. There are financial contraints, societal constraints, family contraints, and, quite frankly, intelligence constraints. Should all of these people be condemned to poverty? What would you suggest for these people?


This whole thing has turned into a witch hunt.

There's no doubt that there is a real crisis here and that many parties made mistakes. But most people are taking this crisis and turning it into a "we finally get to kill the union" party. What it really turns into, however (and maybe unwittingly), is a "lets kill the working class" party. Unbelievable.

 

killing the union doesn't kill the working class.

it actually reminds the working class what the real world is like. depending on the union is no better than depending on the government (welfare, medicaid, etc)


You can't ride a company down on fire wishing it'll make a soft water landing


This is specific to the UAW not the working class as a whole or other industries.

Everyone wants a piece of a pie that's already been eaten. Better go to the store and buy some flour, eggs and apples.

 

Much of Detroit's problems can be traced right back to the UAW...you can deny that all you wish but it's still true - labor (past and present) is the major difference in manufacturing cost per vehicle between the Detroit 3 and everybody else.

Some of that is current labor costs/benefits and some of it is "past" labor costs (pensions/health care, etc of retired workers) which is compounded by a shrinking market share trying to support the workers you needed when the Domestics controlled most of the market and before modernization was utilized (requiring fewer bodies to do the same work).

The UAW leadership finally seemed to grow a brain with its latest contract; it's just too little too late.

No...killing the union doesn't kill the working class...outside of Detroit, the union is but a flyspeck in terms of the total working class.

 

That reminds me of a conversation I had in Ecuador with a gentleman who was originally from Germany...

Globalization in many ways has diluted the wealth in the industrialized nations, and really has put a dent in the working middle class. Oh well, policy-makers and the media don't come from that bracket so it is ok.