You guys don't see the concept. I also find it amusing that everytime someone says something about the 05 or critisizes it, Paper or someone will come out and say it's because of there being no Camaro right now. Believe me! That has nothing to do with it! When it comes out it comes out. GM deserves to lose market share and sales/money/enthusiasts over this stupid BS. Besides I am happy with the Camaros I like/own, there are 4 Gens/35years to choose from. It is a car that will always be popular whether a new model is coming out or not.

I am a Camaro fan/lunatic, everyone knows, but do you think I'd want to see a "new" 1st Gen or 3rd Gen? No! They were already made and I don't want to see either or any Gen be plagerised for a sales ploy. I don't want to see the uniqueness of the originals taken away. I am all for a new car that lets you see "pieces" or that gives you little influences of previous cars/Gens, most definetly, but to be designed after one certain Gen inside and outside, not interested. It makes for an odd looking car to me. Cues mixed with new is what I would look for in a new Gen of a car. I think ever since that 60Sec movie came out, F*rd knew they were gonna make a car to look something like that. They saw people liked it for some reason and would play off of it. Remember the 05 concept? Look at the V6 car's wheels too. Ever wonder where they got their ideas from? They're even taking from that! Do you think Chevrolet will come out with a Yenko looking Camaro because one was used in 2F2F and was the most popular car in the movie and had the best selling scale model from it? I think F*rd realizes that they can get their fans to buy whatever they put out with the M*stang name on it. M*stang 2 or early-mid 80's M*stang design anyone? It's great that you guys still have a car, but I think that the last version of your car was the step in the right direction in design, not this car. I really don't care much if the 05's succeed or not, usually I'd want them not to for the Camaro to win (enough to stay in production though, we don't need anymore musclecars on hiatus) but I want GM to see that this market is important. The previous car made it obvious. (and without doing what this car is doing)

 

Call me crazy, but I don't think it took "Gone in 60 Seconds" for Ford to realize people like classic Mustangs. I also don't think that movie is the reason people like classic stangs, or had anything more than a mild influence on public awareness or opinion on them.

If Chevrolet came out with a Camaro that reminded people of the Camaros they really love, the first gens, it'd be as hot on the market as this Mustang was. Hell, I owned a 4th gen, and I'll say right now that the look of it didn't excite a damned person.

As I said, it's just the hardcore GM fanatics who don't like the new Mustang anyways, you'd never buy one so I doubt Ford cares what you think.

 

Well, actualy if GM were to make a Camaro that everyone loved, it would resemble something like the end of the 2nd gen, to mid way third gen.
Enthusiats love the first gen, but by pure sales numbers, the 2nd gen does win.

How about GM does this...design a NEW car to carry on the image of Camaro? Good idea? Its only been done for,oh....the past 35 years.
Its gunna be Chevy's modern Coupe vs Fords throwback pony car.

 

Mustang II's sold in huge numbers, doesn't mean their heavily sought after or loved now. No offfense to the owners, but i think the late 2nd gen, early 3rd gen were the worst f-body's made, and they are not to blame because the whole performance car market during that era was dead. Even the Vette of that era stunk. Not too many people are crazy about them.

I for one don't want Camaro to go retro just because of mustang, but i wouldn't mind it if the finished product looked good and performed even better. Put me down as one of those who doesn't care for the styling direction as long as the overall package is appealing to me.

 

Suprising comments from you.
Not flaming you at all, but I think you were typing too fast when you wrote this down.

Do you remember (are you old enough to) back in 1987 when Ford leaked out that the Mustang was going to be sold to Mazda? The rumors then changed from selling the nameplate to simply having Mazda design and build the Mustang on an FWD platform. Once those rumors began to show promise of being true, the Mustang fans bombarded Ford with letters and faxes all expressing dismay and disdain. John Coletti (now famous but more of a "who?" person back then) was able to harness the enthusiasm of that fan base and lobby Ford to develop the 91-93 freshening (16" 5-spokes, new paint colors, new interior fabrics, air bags, and other tiny noticeables), and eventually the SN95 "Bubblestang". In short, the public vocalized themselves in grand fashion when Ford started screwing the car up.
I'd HARDLY call that "buying whatever was put out with the Mustang logo on it".

Simple fact is, this Mustang was designed as-much, if not more-so, by the enthusiasts who will buy the cars, rather than some remote, unconnected-to-reality design team that drives minivans to work every day and confirms their designs with a focus group of 20 soccer moms.
Last year, MM&FF did about a 20-page spread on the guys in Team Mustang and their cars... they have AWESOME Mustangs ranging from stock '66 coupes to radically modified '03 Cobras - and everything in between. The guys on Team Mustang love Mustangs and show it... in their driveways and with their wallets. So it's totally cool if you don't like the car - it's not a problem at all. But don't think that Ford doesn't listen to the buying public, and to the Mustang enthusiast. If Ford was doing something stupid to the Mustang and the people didn't like it, they'd hear about it!!!

As for Mustang II - it won COY for 1974, and sold nearly 400k units - exceeding all other competitors by a VAST margin. I seriously doubt that Ford held a gun to their heads to make the public buy that many cars. The M-II was the right car at the right time - despite how lame, slow, or gaudy they appear by today's standards. The Camaro was no different. Even the almighty Vette was low on HP and had graphic tape stripes out the poo-poo-chute in 1976. Big deal? Disco ruled back then, and the cars were all in-line.

As a parting note - I think ALL US-built cars had their Achille's heel in the early '80's. Plastic was new, and the technology of molding it, preserving it, protection from UV and IR was non-existant. Find me ANY car from 1980-1986 that didn't have el-cheapo interiors, peeling moldings, lame paint, and seat fabric that isn't threadbare (if not shredded). Mustang dashes split like toothpicks, and the 1.3-acre flat dashes in the early 3rd gens looked like waves on an ocean as I recall. I don't think the Mustang can stand alone as a poor unit in the early '80's.

Please don't consider this a flame, just a reality check.
Ford won't put "Mustang" badges on just anything expecting landslide sales to ocurr from a name-game (unlike some companies I know).

 

I could ask a 3 year old if the two were the same car, and they'd say no. Because they look different. quoted from MunchE

Of course they look different. What??? Do you expect Ford to release the same exact product more than 40 years later. The point is its extremely retro styled. Retro style means that you take old styling cues and modernize, thus making it a little different. Besides, you could ask an adult if they are the same car, and their answer will be no. Its not about being the same, its about the similar appearance.

The 4th gen Camaro, or the new 'vette for that matter, have almost no ties to the original cars. The only reason we know that they're the same car is that they look somewhat similar to the last version....which looked somewhat similar to the version before that....etc, etc. quoted from MunchE

Oh so now a car has to be retro styled and use old 60's muscle car badging such a Mach 1 and Boss to have ties to an original??? By the different styling directions Ford took with the Mustang, you could have never have told what ties it had with any generations of the car. At one point it could had ties with a Pinto. At another point it looked like it had ties with an Escort. Later it had ties with nothing except for maybe an 80's looking hood scoop like the one on earlier 80's Mustang GT's. Now that it has retro styling and is getting old muscle car badging, you assume Ford always had ties to the original cars??? It hasn't been until now that they're tying their history with a car. The Camaros/Firebirds have been looking similar to previous generations in its 35 years. But isn't that okay according to you MunchE. All that was done was modernizing every single past cue with something completely new. But in this case since it was done with every generation with more new than old, it isn't retro. Your reminded every generation of the Camaro that it is a Camaro, with a styling that doesn't disappoint like Pinto styling. The Camaro always had a sporty flair no matter what year. Ford has just recently gone into the past for styling and inspiration. So don't act like Ford has always done that. Ford is finally bringing ties to its original car and its history, but to say that GM doesn't is false. The original camaro had a long hood, short rear, and sleek cut thru the air sleekness. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen variants still have that. where is it that there is no ties to the original car??? The newest Camaros are even stronger than many before in the past without a supercharger. At least our cars kept looking like muscle cars. unlike Ford with its econo car look during the 70's and 80's, and its cute look during the 90's and early 00's. I know Mustang people had been asking and waiting for Ford to go back to their heritage for a looonnnng time. Now thats its here, of course they're happy.

I am hard core Camaro. i admit i will probably never buy a mustang. But what Ford did was smart, and i hope GM realizes that. i actually like that Ford is finally going back and bringing the Mach 1 and Boss. Although my friend with a 73 Mach 1 is unhappy with the new, its cool that those nameplates are coming back. I always hoped for a modern Yenko, but maybe someday that might happpen especially with the new Mustang as competition. Ford FINALLY went back to the past and it will work. i hate it but i could careless at the same time. until GM comes out, if ever with a new camaro, i will keep hopes and keep modifying what i got.

 

I'm not a 'die hard gm' guy at all. If anything, I used to consider myself a die-hard Ford guy.

One word about the whole retro thing, something Ford should have thought about, instead of the words of the beancounters..."thunderbird".
The first year they came out with the new t-bird, rumors of its crappy sales and end of line was out.

Also, my name is a reference to a 2002 MUSTANG, not a Camaro, which I chose NOT to buy so I dont really have that 'Mustangs suck' attitude either

We're not condemning the car (I dont think) as much as wishing they just came out with something fresh and new instead.
I know this, I wont be buying one;, even though I sold my 02 because I thought I'd want one.

 

On the point of the T-bird...it didn't fail because it was a retro car. People like how the T-bird looks, it's just way too expensive, impractical and slow to sell to anything but a small niche market, ala the SSR. Although at least they're trying to make that pig a bit faster.

I'll be the first to admit that the Mustang looked like crap for a long time. That's why I think giving it cues to the years when Mustang was great, while keeping it looking like a modern car, and an evolution of the current car, is awesome. Personally, I see a lot of the 99-04 Mustang in the new Mustang. It has the same roofline and taillights, and a lot of the shape is the same, just a radically different front end. I just see a lot of "OMG CAN'T FORD MAKE ANYTHING NEW?" on here from the hardcore GM fans, who would bash on a completely from scratch Mustang just as much. It's annoying, but I guess it's my fault for letting it get to me.

 

Actually thats not true, it has styling cues of past vettes(c1's)...There was recently a documentry on the new c6 they explained the back window area in comparison to the old stingrays...

 

Do some research and you'll see that's not true. T-Bird's were in such high demand that Ford couldn't build enough of them. It was the 3rd best selling convertible in America for a few years. While the T-Bird has some reasons for not selling well after the first couple of years, "retro" was very low, even if, on the list. Being overpriced hurt the T-Bird the same on the GTO.

 

Take a good look at the previous Sn95 mustang, and tell me they have no ties to the original. Tri-bar taillights, return of pony in the grille, twin-pod dash, use of side-scoops, bullitt and magnum wheels, Shaker hood with flat black insert, chin spoiler, and wing on Mach 1 not to mention Mach 1 colors such as grabber orange and duplicate of badging and stripes, etc… found on original. The Bullitt with its retro inspired gauges, c-piller, no-wing look, color options such as highland green paint, etc... There were tons of retro cues on the sn95's. To say that Ford is only NOW for the first time tying this car to its history/original is a false notion.


I'll go out on a limb and say that the Sn95 mustang was closer to the original mustang than a 4th gen f-bod was to the 1st gens as far as looks/shape. For crying out loud, the 1st gen was upright and had a trunk whereas the 3rd and 4th gens had/have a much sleeker, low-slung more sport-car look with a hatch instead of trunk. Almost zero ties to the original as far as exterior look or shape. The 4th gen has just about as much in common with the 1st gen as a Fox body does to the original mustang. Very little imo as far as appearance or cues. Again, to say that ford has strayed away from the original formula of mustang till NOW 2005 isn't true. The Sn95's were dead on imo despite giving up the performance crown to the f-bods.

Just 2 cents from a guy who's owned both an Sn95 mustang and a 4th gen camaro.

 

YUP! It is a carbon copy of the 65 alright!

Even a chevy guy "should" be able to figure this one out!

I tried to find this one pic of a 05 sitting next to a 66 fastback (The year the 05 gets most of its design from) and it is unbelieveable how big the 05 is compared to the 66 fastback.

 

My eyes could be deceiving me, but that's a coupe...

 

Indeed. I was trying to find the "side by side" of the 05 and a 66 or 65 fastback but was unable to do so. This pic does show the size difference though.. This is one of those times where "right click save as" was definatly needed.

 

I just skimmed through this thread.

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it odd, bizzare, or just plan old hilarious that on one hand, people are saying that a new Camaro has to "be" a Camaro, or look a certain way, or have a certain formula, yet the new Mustang which fills all those qualifications for that particular car is skewed for those very reasons?

Look, Ford did with Mustang what we all wished GM would do for the Camaro . Create a very modern interpretation of the car that is so pronounced, there doesn't even need to be the word "Camaro" anywhere on the car (go look for the word "Mustang" anywhere on the new Mustang's body ).

Some of ya guys' jealousy is starting to pool in puddles under your chairs.