Your data on the CTS is way out of date. That weight you're quoting is for the old version with the old 3.2 V6. Base weight for a new CTS is very close to the G8, and magazines have tested versions that weigh almost 4100 pounds (gigantic moonroof added 100 by itself, DI engine adds some, and all the other options round out the second 200).

Your data on the BMW is old too, I believe.

 

So it is. I guess thats what I get for using for 2008 and 2009 vehicles from Motor Trend's website.

 

If true, that's "Cancel my GM card" news.


At least for a retro sports coupe.

I agree that they don't need RWD for the SRX.

But Alpha critical if GM wants to compete against the 3-series, C-class, A4, IS, G, etc., which are the volume sellers worldwide for the luxury brands. The CTS is too big, and no one will take a FWD Cadillac car seriously as a sporty car (only Audi and Honda have been able to do that, and even Honda has been having difficulty).

Now, maybe GM doesn't have enough money to do a decent job with Cadillac. That would just mean that there would be more and more shrinking ahead, which would be very sad.

 

They are pretty sloppy at times....

 

I agree. A smaller sporty Cadillac is critical to their long term success. Epsilon II is too big, as it will likely be at least 3900-4000 pounds once you get AWD hardware and a big enough engine to make it relatively speedy (see Acura TL SH-AWD).

Maybe they could do something with a turbo AWD Delta, but I'm very skeptical. Leave that to Saab.

Besides, Buick was supposed to be getting the luxury Epsilon IIs and Deltas....

 

You do realize that outside of this site alot of people don't even know if their car is FWD or RWD, and even less care right?

 

Are we looking at the same numbers?

You have the CTS at 3861 and the G8 at 3885. That looks like a mere 24 pounds, not 376.

Don't see a V6 penalty in your numbers, Geo.

It might be a high priority item to enthusiasts outside of GM, however, I'd say it's priority at the moment ranks up there with a new Cadillac Northstar V8. It might indeed return to the develoment phase someday, but it's no where near a "high priority" item right now to General Motors product planners.

Nice to have, but no one's going to divert resources from Espilon (or even Corvette) to pay for it.

 

Happy now?
Thats the last time I try and make a long post from my phone and try and correct it (and miss half the problem)!

Its still interesting that the G8 goes from the heaviest v6 to the 2nd lightest v8.

 

I would go even further and say that applies to the majority of Cadillac owners and buyers.

Heck the Eldorado was FWD beginning in 1967 all the way up until they killed it off in 2002. I doubt the majority of Eldo owners have/had an issue with FWD.

 

Yes, but opinion makers sure do. A FWD car is not going to build the same cachet that a RWD car will. There's more to a successful sporty luxury car than just RWD, but that's a big part. If you go with FWD, you're starting with a huge handicap.


Note that Cadillac is specifically trying to appeal to a different buyer. There are people out there who still want the big, softly sprung, luxo-barge. Most of them are over 70 years old. They don't like the CTS and STS, because the ride is too firm.

Baby boomers (and younger) mostly aren't interested in traditional Cadillacs. That's why we have the CTS and STS, that have been a great start. But they're too big for a lot of buyers.

 

Partly because you are comparing an LS3 G8 to an LSA CTS.

 

One need look no further than the BLS to see how successful an Epsilon Caddy would be. Personally, I think it's kind of a neat car and Cadillac got expensive items like right hand drive and turbo diesel power essentially for free. But it was false economy. I don't have the BLS sales figures at my fingertips - but I think that we can safely call it a total sales flop. It didn't help Cadillac's image either.

 

I think it's safe to say that Cadillac would want to target more aware consumers.

 

A Cadillac Alpha should have as much aluminum as possible to maximize handling and minimize weight. It should have the best engine technology available to maximize power and minimize fuel consumption.

Then Chevy and Holden could use the same platform, but with cheaper components to get the cost down, for whatever they want. A smaller RWD sport coupe, even with a NA V6 as the top engine, but I4s as the volume model, would be just what Chevy needs circa 2014 (they don't have to call it Camaro). If they can squeeze a V8 in, maybe for a $$ halo model, so much the better, but that would be a very low volume model whose main purpose would be to build interest in the corporation, not make money.

Now, I know that GM may not have the money to do this right now, but if they don't prioritize this, then they'll lose the interest of many enthusiasts, just as they did in the 80s and 90s. So while Cadillac needs Alpha the most, the rest of the corporation can certainly benefit.

The Cobalt SS is a great car, but it's not interesting to me. I'm sure it is to some....

 

Is the distaste for Sigma in Cadillac simply a case of NIH?

I would think that if you started with a Zeta and added $12K of content, you could do things like replace steel parts with aluminum and upgrade the engines. The result could be lighter than a Sigma and be better than the mass market Zeta.

I'm probably missing something, and it'd be nice to know what that is