Sadly, as much as I'd love to see another Firebird, I completely agree with you...

 

People see what they want to see when they look at a GTO.

Among my neighbors, one has a previous generation 5-series. Another has an late grand am. One morning i came out to find my car parked right between them. IMO the GTO had a lot more in common with the 5 series than the GA by far. Same thing when i'm parked next to 00+ 3-series at work. Thick body with subtle styling lines. Blunt nose. Short overhangs. The only thing the GA and GTO share is the poncho grille, and even there, the flush GTO grille is better looking to me (which is why i don;t understand why anybody buys the recessed auto-x grilles on purpose). GTO does have more of an overall wedge shape to it than a BMW, but that makes it more like an SN95 mustang than anything in the pontiac stable as well.


So sure the styling isn't garish and over the top like the Ls1 bird and GA, so i'm sure that hurt it some in that core audience of pontiac enthusiast. Could they alone have propped up the car much better than it did, who knows? As pointed out, GTO outsells other premimum (30K+) pony cars, maybe that market just isn't that big even if it did have crazier styling. Because for every buyer of an LS1 bird who would have bought a more garish GTO, you would have lost buyers like me who DESPISE cars like the LS1 bird and GA. Believe it or not, i'd venture a significant percentage of GTO buyers actually LIKED the fact that the car is so understated, i've heard as much from MANY GTO owners on this and other boards.

To me, I dont think you can discount that it didn't offer other important premium options like sunroof, heated seats, navigation, auto-HVAC, etc. A LOT of people buying cars for over 30K down right EXPECT and DEMAND those kinds of options. I could walk out in my parking lot at work right now and i bet i couldn't find a single car with a sticker >= to my GTO that doesn't at least have 2 out of the 4 options i listed above. ****, i don;t think there is a single V6 accord in my lot that doesn't have ALL of them, let alone the premium SUVs, euro-trash rides, etc.

 

Look at a Grand PRIX, not a Grand AM, and then tell me they aren't very, very similar...

It doesn't need to be garish to create an impact. Think about a G35-like look...aggressive and classy at the same time. THAT is what I'd like to see Pontiac pull off...

 

Grand prix has long overhangs with a pointy nose, and even less of a wedge shape to the body. GP to me is more long and thin, seems to have a visually lower beltline than GA or GTO as well.

Between GA and GP, i'd say the GTO shares more with GA, but neither are as close to the proportions as to a BMW. Blunt nose, short overhangs and subtle curves and character lines are what define GTO's styling to me.

 

The way I looked at it was this...I parked my '01 GT coupe next to a GTO once. The noses, especially with the headlights, are extremely similar. The profiles are nearly identical. If anything, the GP might even look a little more aggressive on the side with the lower gfx it has. I realize the GTO has the optional gfx, but those are friggen weird looking...

I know what you mean about the BMW-like look to it, but to me and some others I pointed it out to, the GTO screams of '97-'02 GP coupe...

 

Actually, I was referring to the current formula for the GTO.

 

Well, what's a 'premium ponycar'?
Is that what we're calling the GTO now?
And if so, is a G35 coupe a 'premium ponycar'?

The G35 coupe BTW, outsells GTO by 100%.

 

I was using Guy's definition the 30K+ american V8 RWD cars, such as the cobra, mach1, and the last of the loaded 4th gens. Hell, GTO practically outsells LS1 firebird period.

G35 and the 330 cleanly outsell GTO and everything else in the price range. Is it because they're that much flashier? Perhaps somewhat, but to me, not as much as they also offer options that people buying $30K cars expect. Like i said, i can't find a single V6 accord in my parking lot at work that doesn't have a sunroof, auto-HVAC, heated seats and NAV. Don't make me start poking around the BMW and mercedes and ****, VWs too.

Point is, even if you get a prospective G35/3series buyer actually on the pontiac lot and impressed with the glued to the seatback performace, they could still walk away because they crave toys and such more than that acceleration. Outside performance and actually being a nice car, it lacks those little details that would make the final hook.

 

The G35 coupe is a successful car. Call it what you want. It also proves that there's always a market for a sweet looking product.

I honestly think that Pontiac could do more with a coupe than Caddy. Let Caddy keep going more premium. Nissan/Infinity is exactly who Pontiac should be after/

 

Whatever it is, I guess GTO does lack a certain something to make the final hook. Personally, I don't think it has much to do with lack of sunroof, nav, etc.

I've been trying to convince myself that I should buy a GTO for over 2 years. I've probably driven almost a dozen of them. GTO has offered enough to make my "will consider" list, but not enough to make me dig deep into my pocket and buy one.

I find it's styling fairly pleasing, but certainly not drop dead gorgeous. It's chassis dynamics are adequate but definitely not soul stirring. It has a number of annoying characteristics as well...like that whole power seat rigmarole to get in the back seat, the box in the trunk deal...and my pet peeve for a car calling itself a GTO....no 3rd seatbelt in back.

Anyway, the manual trans (complete with crappy shifter) and lusty motor kept bringing me back for a 2nd, 3rd, 10th look. But I just could never pull the trigger, and all the electronic gizmos in the world wouldn't have made a difference to me.

I wouldn't mind spending the money on GTO's asking price if it gave me more of what I wanted. Or I could forgive some of it's shortcomings if it had a lower price.

So I guess for me....GTO either needed to be a better car for the same price or the same car for a lower price.

 

"GTO either needed to be a better car for the same price or the same car for a lower price."

Couldn't have said it better. At $33,500, I wouldn't bite. At $25,339, I bit hard. This car SHOULD have, for $33,500, had all the Holden Monaro standard equipment... electronic climate control, memory seat function, 18-inch wheels, the option to NOT have a rear spoiler, etc. I fault GM big time for decontenting the Monaro for Pontiac use. Did they really save that much by building the GTO's so different from the Monaro? Go to the Holden website and check out the Monaro... styling-wise, it's a much better looking car with only a few differences from GTO. And with only the addition of the electronic climate control (which gets rid of the cheap-johnny HVAC controls) the interior looks 100% better, too.