Something I've been thinking about for awhile, but haven't really vocalized here. But since BL and 60 Minutes has this all stirred up, it seems like a good time.

What if we get a Caddy coupe, with a starting price of mid $30's? And we get a Camaro which tops out at high $30's. Any room for a GTO coupe? Honestly, I don't think so. For a GTO coupe ,that is.

There have been rumors of a Caddy coupe for afew years now. I did happen to overhear some buzz recently in Detroit, giving the impression it's being moved off the back burner.

Any thoughts? *





*Please, please , please, I cannot handle one more post of " well, if they can sell an LS7 GTO for $34,000, it'll blow Cadillac away".

 

GTO = Grand Prix coupe (with different sheet metal)

The Grand Prix coupe would be bigger than the Camaro. Think of it like the Firebird/Trans Am-Firehawk line. You make the V6 GP coupe start at the same price as the sedan, offer a LS4 5.3L version to cost the same as the Sedan LS4 and then offer a LS2/LS3 version called GTO that has a little more agressive sheet metal but is basically a GP coupe.


maybe even make the GTO/GP coupe a quad coupe

 

Clearly they want to make Buick and Pontiac so crappy that the dealers will voluntarily switch to Toyota and they can kill the divisions without upsetting anyone.

 

id say a quad coupe may work to differentiate it enough. that and/or price the caddy higher and give it more standard feartures.

they could also put an ls7 in it and price it at 34,000 and blow the caddy away

 

The coupe mix should be like this:

Camaro: $25k - 35k (special editions at 35k+ would be okay)
GTO: $30k - 40k
CTS: $35k - 45k

Camaro would use the HV V-6 as base with LSx V8 optional. GTO would be LSx V8 only, slightly larger with muscular styling. CTS would be GTO sized, but luxury styling with HF V-6 and Northstar V-8.

The CTS would be a completely different market. There would be some overlap between the top Camaro models and the GTO, but the size and styling could set them enough apart.

Randy

 

I think if they dont make the GTO coupe depend on a large volume, then it should be fine selling 20k units a year. And still be profitable even at 34k as long as the appearance problems from the current generation are addressed and the car is stunning. However, I think that they should put a supercharged 3.5 or 3.9L in a base GTO and offer it in the mid 20's...that would give pontiac a more volume car. Bigger then the camaro, so it wont directly compete.

 

I agree with Z28x.

I think GTO and the CTS coupe would be going after different markets. The next CTS wil likely be able to fit a Northstar in it, meaning it won't need the compactness of the LSx engines. GTO, on the other hand, would obviously get whatever LSx engine(s) GM has available. I also think they'll be differentiated stylistically enough - both are going for bold and brash, but Cadilac's styling will also exhibit dimensions of upscale luxury, refinement, sophistication, and attention to details, things you would expect from the brand at the top of the GM food chain. Pontiacs will have (positive) attention-getting styling, but at their price point won't have the other qualities that I listed for Pontiac.

Honestly, I feel a GTO is far more crucial to Pontiac than the CTS coupe would be for Caddy. While a CTC would help expand an already successful line, the GTO has the more daunting task of being a successful flagship for its brand as well as casting a halo over a rather weak lineup. If I were in charge of GM's finances I know which car I'd fund first.

 

It's too bad that the GTO didn't sell out all 18,000 units per year originally planned. That would have made a strong argument for it's survival.

 

But it DID seriously outsell 2 other premium V8 sporty coupes, Cobra and Mach 1.

I know hindsight's 20/20, and being part of an enthusiast's website I'm as guilty as GM for this, but being that no one really sells anywhere near 18,000 premium (meaning $30K+) V8 powered coupes (including 4th gen F-bodies), why on earth did GM think it could do 18K GTO's?

In this light, 15K GTOs that were sold is very impressive. However, being that GM took a lazy pace bringing scalping under control, and kept GTO off incentives most of it's existence, I kind of wonder if the numbers weren't inflated just to make the car happen.


BTW, if GM can put distance between the XLR and the Corvette, keeping a GTO and a Cadillac coupe apart should be a piece of cake. In many ways it would be the difference between a CTS and an Impala.

 

I don't have the figures at my fingertips, but I think GTO sales are somewhere under 12,000 units per year.

The problem with the GTO was, that everyone....including me.... was expecting it to simply catch fire. It didn't.

 

The real question facing GM is why. And for the life of me I cannot figure out the answer to that. You can say styling (sedate) and price (to high for some), but did those 2 minor reasons really cause the fire to be stifled?

 

Hard telling. However, I have drivena few of them. If I had been in the market for another sporty coupe in a reasonable price range, it would have topped my list.

 

<shameless plug>
Here's an article I wrote a couple of months ago on C&G explaining my beliefs for the failing of the current GTO:

An Icon Departs: How America Failed the GTO
</shameless plug>

Well, my question is, if Pontiac isn't getting a GTO coupe as its flagship, what other vehicle could take its place and make the proper statement about Pontiac that needs to be made? As of right now, Pontiac's flagship is shaping up to be a 270hp riced up G6 .

 

The problem is, those aren't MINOR reasons!!!

It didn't look exciting, but its an exciting car. Therein lies the problem. It reminds me of a modern-day Grand National, but at least the GN looked mean...the GTO does not.

Secondly, a lot of people who wanted it simply could not afford it. If GM really wanted to SELL GTOs, they would have allowed options...other engines...and a lower price point. The thing is, GM took THE EASY WAY OUT...made them all one way, with one engine. One way cars don't work so well for performance cars, where people like to have some say over individuality...and in a market where price matters.

 

All depends really. What if the Caddy Coupe was an M6 chaser? Remember Cadillac is moving mostly up, not down.

Charlie must have an a poster of a GTO in his office that he throws darts at during downtime.