GTO got a bad rep out the gate. Took forever for the cars to get here...but the time they did, they had a reputation for being expensive do to the word of mouth over the markups.

Styling is subjective...I liked the GTO, especially with the 05 improvments.

Just look at the F-body..The Firebird looked like a crack *****, and the Camaro looked like Mary Anne from Gilligan's Island.

 

2003 GTO Sales: 79
2004 GTO Sales: 13,569
2005 GTO Sales: 11,069
That averages out to just a little over 12,000 per year... BUT... Keep in mind, 2005 was artificially short production year. They stopped producing 05's and starting building 06's early, so 06 production will be significantly higher than 05. And the 18,000 number originally quoted was merely a production LIMIT, not necessarily a goal. I would guess, once it's all said and done, 38,000 to 40,000 total for the three model years. Less than originally hoped for? I imagine so. But still around 75% of maximum production capability.

 

I think there's still room for a GTO coupe.

The Cadillac would not really compete with the GTO... The GTO at $35k would have a big throaty LSX engine, and the CTS coupe would have a HF V6 for the same price but more luxury. A CTS coupe with similar power (V-Series) would be well into the $50ks I would think.

The Camaro would obviously slot in under the GTO with the V6 and then also be cheaper with the V8, but wouldn't be as nice as the GTO (meaning cloth vs. leather, better sound system for GTO, etc) unless it was loaded.

Personally, I feel one reason to buy a GTO would be for exclusivity. If there's going to be 140k Camaros sold per year, with probably 100k being V6 models, you're going to see multipul Camaros per day most likely. If the GTO sells 15-20k, you're going to see a whole lot less. And, if you own the GTO, everyone knows you've got a ton of muscle under the hood. Without looking closely, no one knows if the Camaro is a "secretary" V6 model or a high-power V8.

 

Not true about the GTO. I like it just fine.

M6 chaser? There just may be a V version of the Caddy coupe, otherwise, I expect the coupe to mirror the next gen CTS in price.

 

Possible...

But I don't think GTO buyers and CTS buyers are the same person. Also, I do not think that you will find a V8 CTS Coupe for the same price as the GTO.

 

Well, I recently ordered a CTS and was also considering a GTO.....so there ya go.

But you're right, I can a imagine a V Series coupe being quite abit upscale of where the GTO is now.

Camaro SS and Camaro Z/28 will be a better fit for those buyers.

 

Hrm, you could make comparisons to the 350Z vs the G35, both are the same car, same power, just little different sheetmetal and different badges, along with some other details. You could also compare the 300C/SRT8 vs the Charger RT/SRT8.
A Camaro would be much more broad based, going from a 20k V6 coupe to a 35+ Z28. A GTO would most likely have to include a lot of options on a Camaro as standard, as well as the V8.
Now, didnt Pontiac want to aim at BMW 3 series coupe owners with the GTO? Would this not be the same exact market Caddy would be going after with the CTC? A CTC-V as well as the CTS-V would have to have an engine that could not be found under the hood of a Z28 or a GTO, or there would be no point in paying the added price, not to mention the press of having a "Camaro engine".
This could also go for a Pontiac sedan, having it RWD would bring it close to the CTS in performance as well as a Pontiac Sedan GXP. Lets not forget any RWD Chevy sedans packing similar power. Its crowded, and it will be tough for each car to find a niche.

Here is how it would have to work out

20k -- 250-270hp 3.9 V6 Camaro SC
26k -- 320hp 5.3 V8 Camaro RS
30k -- 260hp 2.8 VVT CTC
32k -- 400+hp V8 6.0 Camaro SS
33k -- 300+hp V6 3.6 VVT CTC
35k -- 400+hp V8 6.0 GTO
37k -- 430-450hp V8 6.2 Camaro Z28
39k -- 430-450hp V8 6.2 GTO
58k -- 475-500hp V8 CTC-V

That gives near total coverage of the coupe market with the RWD cars. If you have 20 to 60k to spend, you can get youself a GM RWD coupe. Of course that Camaro people probably wont cross shop the CTC unless they are in the mood for a little bit more luxury, but then they could probably go up to a GTO, save themselves a little money and still have the performance.

 

I've noticed in several posts you mentioned the Firebird stealing more than its share of development money from the Camaro. Do you think this could be a problem with the GTO as well?

 

in all honesty i think those are the only two reasons. the MSRP was not that outrageous, but the dealer markups really killed it. They got to be pretty damn high.

The styling? yes styling is subjective. Yes it was a sedate styling. I personally like it, but i think a lot of people were dissapointed in its styling. At first i was but it grew on me. When i finally got to drive one i fell even more in love with the car. but i think such a sedate styling for a legendary moniker like the GTO it what prevented a lot of people from going to dealerships to test drive it. and when people did the dealer markup would kill the deal for people

 

Let's consider why we have a GTO here in the first place. It was an emergency place keeper for a GM, 2+2, RWD, V8 car - after the F-car died.

Would a new GTO take money away from Camaro? I don't know, maybe I guess. Just like SSR and Solstice did I suppose.

But the real question is; will GM even think a new GTO is worth funding/developing? In case you guys haven't figured it out yet...a Caddy coupe IS coming. And as Rick Wagoner stated, GM would be "brain dead" not to bring a Camaro. With these coupes coming can a new GTO play a role or fill a niche for GM? I don't know. It's gonna be a tough sell, I think.

 

So, gee, everyone gets a performance coupe except.... the Excitement Division?

 

Perhaps not if GTO isn't a traditional coupe.

 

Yeah, once again, it doesn;t seem to look that great for Pontiac. I just don't get it. As GM's #2 division, why isn't there more resources spent on product for Pontiac to get it headed in the right direction? Pontiac does have a rich history as well, and yet it seems GM is throwing it away.

 

The cars taking time to get here didn't hurt it nearly as much as YAWN styling and the perceived theory it was too much money. Everything was standard, and the car ran $33k...when you could get a V8 Firebird for $26k 2 years prior, that was a helluva jump. Was the GTO WORTH IT? Well, yes. But, the lack of cheaper models hurt the car, without question.

Styling is subjective, obviously. No one ever complained the Camaro was boring looking...but I constantly heard that in both the media and the sales floor about the GTO. When people came in, they'd ask me to pop the hood, say it looked like a "bloated Cavalier," a "90s Grand Prix coupe," or "bland," take a peek at the sticker, and walk off. I never had those problems with a Firebird...

I know there's a lot of GTO fans here, and I would expect that...I liked the car myself. But personally, I didn't love it at all, and a lot of that had to do with the styling...and I'm not alone in that. If the car had been a knockout, it would have sold better...

Saying styling and pricing were MINOR issues with the car, as another person said above, is completely foolish IMO...people would have bought the damn thing if more people were simply attracted to it!!!

 

Perhaps. We'll see what ends up happening. Certainly, there's not much of a need for another 2+2, RWD, V8 coupe with the Camaro coming.