Actually the Saturn panel's originated on the Pontiac Fiero. The tech is outdated and not something people look for in a car to begin with. Otherwise Saturn would be a top brand.

 

Yeah, obviously that attribute is why Saturn has not been a desirable brand.

 

Plastic panels have gotten Saturn nowhere except constant ******* in the press for panel gaps. Plastic makes it real difficult for fit and finish on the body of a vehicle.

 

I realize this (the Corvette seems to succeed inspite of this, however).

Point is, that is not the reason Saturns is a brand in need of recovery. I'd give more attention to the uninspiring styling and driving dynamics, personally. The vehicles that are in the pipeline look great and seem to have high quality (of materials) in the interiors. I don't see anyone saying, "Look, the panels aren't plastic and the gaps are tighter! These cars kick ***!"

 

Weight loss on a Corvette is a very good thing - a crucial component of the all around performance of the car. On a Saturn it's not really that big of a deal.

 

Well, I wouldn't say it has gotten them nowhere. Saturn owners tend to LOVE the panels, because they don't ding or rust. You can look at 12 year old 1st generation Saturn SLs, and they can still look pretty fresh. They don't have the pattering of door dings and corrosion (though corrosion is less of a problem nowadays, particularly if you wash your car and take care of it!) like older steel-bodied cars often do.

It is true that the fit doesn't look as good in this age of 3 to 5 mm panel gaps. Of course, tight panel gaps have jack squat to do with how well your car will hold up over the long haul; it is all a perception thing. I think the media, and to a lesser (but increasing) extent, the public, put too much emphasis on some of these trivial details.

But that is the current situation, like it or not, and so Lutz and Co have decided to move to steel. I don't personally have a big problem with it, but it has pissed off a LOT of the Saturn "faithful". It is nice to not have to worry about dings. I still park my Ion way out and on end spots, just like I do with any car, but it is nice to know that should someone still manage to open a door into it or bump it with a shopping cart, there will not be a ding as a result.

 

And what exactly does plastic panels do for a Saturn?

I mean the grocery cart in the side of a door commercial was cute for the first 100 times, but people could care less I am assuming if plastic was discontinued.

 

Saturn's problem was an "appliance" image (which is fine for many buyers) and also a shortage of different (and new) products. The first Saturns, the SL line, lasted for nearly 10 years. They did get a redesign in that time, but they were the same basic cars underneath. Solid cars, but still long in the tooth.

My point is that the plastic panels have their benefits. Being plastic is not what has caused Saturn to lose sales. It was the fact the the S-Series got old, and the Ion was not well received initially. It was mainly criticized for its interior, though.

I don't think "People could care less" is the issue. The issue is that the plastic panels' positives are not enough to overcome the other advantages of steel for the direction Lutz wants to take the brand. Like I said, there are a lot of people who DO care. These tend to be the "vehicles are utilitarian tools" type people, maybe, who buy cars and keep them for a while. In this day and age, though, where we are expected to have a new ride every few years, the plastic panels are not as much of an advantage. Couple that with the perceived quality advantage of steel, and the plastic looses out. Add on top of all that the fact that future Saturns may have a lot in common with some sweet Opel (European) cars, like the upcoming Vue replacement, and plastic is at a further disadvantage (the Opels aren't going to use plastic).

I'm not sure what we are arguing about here. I'm merely saying that the plastic panels were a well-liked feature among a lot of actual Saturn owners. But, that is admittedly (and somewhat confusingly) too far from the mainstream nowadays. You'd think that there is enough room in this huge auto market for a somewhat quirky brand (like Subaru, Saturn, and Saab) that also incorporates plastic panels (like Saturn). Perhaps if the brand were healthier right now, some of the newer, more dramatic models (like the Sky and Aura and new in '07 Vue) could still keep the plastic panels. They might have slightly bigger gaps, but the new styling direction and other features might overcome that. Remember that the early S-Series sold very strongly, but they didn't keep up... I think the fact that Saturn was slipping has sort of forced GM to make them conform, which I understand fully.

As long as they maintain the image of being customer friendly and reliable, but add the classier styling and more model diversity, the loss of the plastic panels will be easier to swallow for all but the most die hard plastic fans (and there are quite a few out there).

 

I never said that it was the reason that Saturn is not in good shape. I said that this feature is not high in priority for car shoppers. If it was then Saturn would have many sales just because of it.

 

All I am saying is that even though Saturns have turned into bland, cheap, and not that reliable vehicles, keeping plastic panels would not help sales all that much. A lot of actual Sautrn owners do not care about plastic either. That is all I am saying. You make it seems as some kind of bad idea to move to steel on a Saturn. Part of the reason why Saturn became known as "cheap" in the first place was their plastic panels. Perceived quality was not that great with Saturn having plastic body panels all over a car. It was a great marketing idea years ago, but has since gone away.

 

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

Symmetrical?

Ok, maybe he was a little harsh. But it is a inline 4-cylinder and an inline 4-cylinder has no practical need for dual exhaust. For such a well engineered car, why screw it up just because some people are too stupid to know what an exhaust pipe is actually for?

 

On the plastic panels, I have a '97 SL1 as a daily driver, and since it's a daily beater that I don't care too much about, I absolutely love the plastic panels. I treat the car like crap, yet the exterior remains looking decent (as decent as a mid-90s Saturn can look).

As for the Sky, I think it's much better looking than the Solstice, which I also like. I'll have to reserve judgement until I see them in person, though.

 

Yeah, but having dual exhaust on an inline4 is no different than other artificial cosmetic add-ons such as non-functional hood scoops, vents, spoilers and the like. Most agree cars with these "look better" and in this case GM will leverage that as part of the uplevel performance model. I don't see making a big deal out of a second (useless) exhaust tip if that's what people want. The aforementioned Honda S2000 is also guilty of this.

 

My STI has functional scoops and wings with a single pipe out of the back (It does have 2 cyl. heads so I guess it could have a functional dual exst.) I like the way the cars look with the spoiler off and the newer shorter scoop from the 06 STIs. Again its the Bi and the Curious movie crowd that needs dual exst. ect..