Businessweek: Caution in design killing Ford comeback.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Re: Businessweek: Caution in design killing Ford comeback.
The G6 has good content for the money and is better than a GA.
Beyond that, IMO, it is a completely unremarkable car. It is merely an appliance.....with barely more pulse than grandma's Malibu. Even the GT version feels like it's chassis is on Prozac. Is the steering wheel even connected to front wheels? I don't know.....I guess it must be, since the car seems to change direction when I turn it....very much like a motor boat.
I'll keep an open mind though....you never know, the GXP might be good.
Beyond that, IMO, it is a completely unremarkable car. It is merely an appliance.....with barely more pulse than grandma's Malibu. Even the GT version feels like it's chassis is on Prozac. Is the steering wheel even connected to front wheels? I don't know.....I guess it must be, since the car seems to change direction when I turn it....very much like a motor boat.
I'll keep an open mind though....you never know, the GXP might be good.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
Re: Businessweek: Caution in design killing Ford comeback.
G6 will do better when dealers can get 4 cyl models. Whenever I see an Accord or a Camry, most of the time they are 4cyl models.
I also dont understand the use of the electric steering in a "performance" car. It needs to feel connected. Its fine for the Malibu, but if Pontiac is gunna be the performance team, it needs a better tuned electric steering like on the Cobalt SS, or it needs the hydraulic steering found in the GTP model.
I also dont understand the use of the electric steering in a "performance" car. It needs to feel connected. Its fine for the Malibu, but if Pontiac is gunna be the performance team, it needs a better tuned electric steering like on the Cobalt SS, or it needs the hydraulic steering found in the GTP model.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,881
Re: Businessweek: Caution in design killing Ford comeback.
Originally Posted by Jason E
There are times I come to this board, and I honestly believe people fail to read what other people say. This is one of those times.
PLEASE...to those of you who seem to think the car is priced too high...READ..........
A loaded GA GT sells for $25k. It lacks:
1) Heated leather
2) On Star
3) CD changer
4) On board computer
5) 17" wheels
6) FAR SUPERIOR INTERIOR QUALITY
7) Significantly larger interior
Ok, now stay with me here...I didn't lose you guys yet, did I? Ok, good...
A comparable G6 GT, with the SAME EQUIPMENT....sells for $1,500 more. Oh my god...what a rip off. Yes, $26,500 gets you the same equipment AND what's stated above for the additional $1,500 cost of the G6. Both cars have identical equipment otherwise. Have we followed that? Do I need to spell it out any farther?
Ok, so the way you get a G6 GT any higher is to add items never available on a Grand Am. Panoramic moonroof adds $750. Side impact airbags add $800. So, AT MOST a G6 GT costs $3k more than a loaded Grand Am GT.
If people on here are too cheap to see the additional value offered by a G6, you really haven't seen what new cars cost these days, anyway. I owned a Grand Am GT. It was a pile of crap next to the G6. I'd also like to mention the GP argument is invalid as well. A loaded GP GT is over $29k without the extra $750 they charge for the panoramic roof over a normal moonroof, nor does it have the $800 side airbags at that cost. And fankly, the car is not as nice inside or out. So the G6 GT gives you $1,500 more in equipment for over $1k less. Oh wait...there's the $2,500 spread, $1k over what Joelius needed to be happy.
Comparing a base model G6 to an '04 Grand Am SE reveals the same math. A lot more car for little more money. I hope this is simple enough for people on this board to follow, but something tells me it won't be. Oh, and falchulk, good idea not to challenge me on pricing out a better 300 for less than a G6. Sorry to be a *****, but this whole theory that GM overprices is everything is unfounded and asinine.
Sorry again to hijack a Ford thread. On with the regularly scheduled programming
PLEASE...to those of you who seem to think the car is priced too high...READ..........
A loaded GA GT sells for $25k. It lacks:
1) Heated leather
2) On Star
3) CD changer
4) On board computer
5) 17" wheels
6) FAR SUPERIOR INTERIOR QUALITY
7) Significantly larger interior
Ok, now stay with me here...I didn't lose you guys yet, did I? Ok, good...
A comparable G6 GT, with the SAME EQUIPMENT....sells for $1,500 more. Oh my god...what a rip off. Yes, $26,500 gets you the same equipment AND what's stated above for the additional $1,500 cost of the G6. Both cars have identical equipment otherwise. Have we followed that? Do I need to spell it out any farther?
Ok, so the way you get a G6 GT any higher is to add items never available on a Grand Am. Panoramic moonroof adds $750. Side impact airbags add $800. So, AT MOST a G6 GT costs $3k more than a loaded Grand Am GT.
If people on here are too cheap to see the additional value offered by a G6, you really haven't seen what new cars cost these days, anyway. I owned a Grand Am GT. It was a pile of crap next to the G6. I'd also like to mention the GP argument is invalid as well. A loaded GP GT is over $29k without the extra $750 they charge for the panoramic roof over a normal moonroof, nor does it have the $800 side airbags at that cost. And fankly, the car is not as nice inside or out. So the G6 GT gives you $1,500 more in equipment for over $1k less. Oh wait...there's the $2,500 spread, $1k over what Joelius needed to be happy.
Comparing a base model G6 to an '04 Grand Am SE reveals the same math. A lot more car for little more money. I hope this is simple enough for people on this board to follow, but something tells me it won't be. Oh, and falchulk, good idea not to challenge me on pricing out a better 300 for less than a G6. Sorry to be a *****, but this whole theory that GM overprices is everything is unfounded and asinine.
Sorry again to hijack a Ford thread. On with the regularly scheduled programming
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,881
Re: Businessweek: Caution in design killing Ford comeback.
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
G6 will do better when dealers can get 4 cyl models. Whenever I see an Accord or a Camry, most of the time they are 4cyl models.
I also dont understand the use of the electric steering in a "performance" car. It needs to feel connected. Its fine for the Malibu, but if Pontiac is gunna be the performance team, it needs a better tuned electric steering like on the Cobalt SS, or it needs the hydraulic steering found in the GTP model.
I also dont understand the use of the electric steering in a "performance" car. It needs to feel connected. Its fine for the Malibu, but if Pontiac is gunna be the performance team, it needs a better tuned electric steering like on the Cobalt SS, or it needs the hydraulic steering found in the GTP model.
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,610
From: Cincinnati, OH
Re: Businessweek: Caution in design killing Ford comeback.
Originally Posted by falchulk
When did they start marketing it as a performance car?
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,276
From: Chattanoga & Franklin
Re: Businessweek: Caution in design killing Ford comeback.
That's my main beef with Pontiac and the G6, it is marketed as a high performence vechile, and has the style to back it up, but in reality its a poser. Hopefully things will change with the GXP model, but why didn't Pontiac make stiffer suspension and better steering feel standard? They are the performence divsion, so why don't they sell cars that perform 
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,276
From: Chattanoga & Franklin
Re: Businessweek: Caution in design killing Ford comeback.
Sorry to get us off topic, but the Ford 500, looking at the rear and side profile, looks exactly like a 2000 Toyota Avalon. A car that is 5 years old 
If domestics are to overtake the Japs in the car market, we cannot be emulating them. Look at where that has got us for the past 20 years. We need to offer style and performence, something most of them do not offer. And we need to have build quality be on par or exceed what Japan offers. Chrysler seems to have gotten the formula right, hopefully the quality on their new LX cars is up to snuff(their perceived quality IMO is better than GM or Ford).
If domestics are to overtake the Japs in the car market, we cannot be emulating them. Look at where that has got us for the past 20 years. We need to offer style and performence, something most of them do not offer. And we need to have build quality be on par or exceed what Japan offers. Chrysler seems to have gotten the formula right, hopefully the quality on their new LX cars is up to snuff(their perceived quality IMO is better than GM or Ford).
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,870
Re: Businessweek: Caution in design killing Ford comeback.
My biggest gripe with the 500 isn't styling (most cars in that class are just as bland), but the power issue. 203hp is so late 90's. Releasing this car without the 3.5 Duratec was a big mistake imo. This car due to its size and weight (especially added weight of AWD) is about 400-500lbs heavier than camry/accord and it needs every hp it can get, and nothing short of 245hp will cut it. Not when 245hp accords and Altima's have been offered for the last 2 or so years.
As as far as their sedans go, i like the Fusion 10x more and am look forward to a future SVT version.
As as far as their sedans go, i like the Fusion 10x more and am look forward to a future SVT version.
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