So "the goods" means FWD, overweight, and underpowered?

 

Hey, you forgot overpriced!

More power is always nice, but I think the 2.0T's fat torque numbers will help create a fun driving experience. I've driven lots of FWD cars which delivered the goods, in fact I've owned afew of them. At the power levels we're talking about, FWD should work fine. I'm not really worried about that too much, to be honest. AWD would have been neat, but probably more useful in a higher power application.

But overweight is a problem - and adding AWD to an already obese car only exacerbates the mass issue. A systemic problem with many GM products. Epsilon needs a diet, Lambda needs a diet, Sigma needs a diet, and youknowhat needs a BIG diet. I'd feel much better about a FWD GS if it weighed 3400 pounds or less. But whatever, it is what it is.

I think it will deliver "the goods" at a certain level and at a certain price point. But if Buick gets a little bit ahead of itself on price, it will fall flat on it's face. If it's priced right, they may still have a winner.

 

where is THIS car in the youtube link? VVVVVV
And he does say is is just a little over 30 euro's so thats for the VXR..so the same Buick GS for 45K would not work? Come on. The customer base your trying to impress would love it buy it and give Buick the image in needs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxAKKQNjcuM

Why is GM giving us the watered down car? It is sold in the UK and Europe as the Opel and the Vauxhall why not the same car as a Buick.
Like I said its costing GM more money to make a totally different car than just packaging up this one and sending it here.

 

Interesting specs...

Buick Regal CXL: 3600lb (auto)
Buick Regal CXL Turbo: 3671 lb (auto)
Buick Regal GS: 3710 lb (don't know which transmission)
Opel Insignia 2.0T AWD: 3968 lb (manual)
Opel Insignia OPC AWD: 4041 lb (manual)

Acura TSX 2.4: 3400 lb (manual)
Acura TSX 2.4: 3470 lb (auto)
Acura TSX 3.5: 3664 lb (auto)

Audi A4 FWD: 3527 lb (multitronic CVT, only transmission for FWD)
Audi A4 AWD: 3626 lb (manual)
Audi A4 AWD: 3715 lb (tiptronic)

Lexus IS250 RWD: 3455 lb (manual)
Lexus IS250 AWD: 3651 lb (auto)
Lexus IS350 RWD: 3527 lb (auto)
Lexus IS350 AWD: 3703 lb (auto)

VW Passat CC 2.0T: 3147 lb (auto)
VW Passat CC 2.0T: 3300 lb (manual)
VW Passat CC VR6 AWD: 3854 lb (auto)

Weights are indeed all over the place, as are the penalties for AWD... partly because AWD seems to come with a different transmission and or engine in most cases. I Put the CC on here because it has a very large range of weights that the line covers from the made from paper base car to the comparatively hefty VR6 AWD. If GM kept the Saab AWD system that is in the Opel, I imagine the Regal GS AWD would be around 3968lb like the Insignia 2.0T AWD. Would the AWD kill the fun? I dunno, if it was advanced enough perhaps it could make up for the weight. One thing is for sure, the fuel mileage would take a hit. The CC for example gets 21/31mpg in lightest trim and a rather less stellar 17/25mpg in VR6 AWD form (granted that is a different engine, but they don't offer AWD with the 2.0T here).

I don't know, is there a lot of wasted weight in Epsilon II and that is why the Regal seems heavy? Is the PQ46 architecture under the CC better? The saddest is really IS which is a good deal lighter than the Regal even though it is RWD...

 

From earlier in the thread...
For reference, the engine in the SRX is in fact the 2.8L turbo and it makes 300HP @ 5500RPM, and 295lbft @1850RPM, tuned for the US market... and down 25HP from the OPC. Also they did have those problems with damaged engines when dumb people ran them on regular despite the numerous warnings in the vehicle and on the gas cap... I imagine it isn't really a problem after the recall. Perhaps they decided that was more headache than it was worth as well.

And again from Autoblog
Slightly more controversial, but there it is. Maybe you will get your wish and they will make AWD an option in the future, but that car will weigh at least 3900lbs.

 

Yea I know. I have a GP GXP I know about FWD performance. Its great in some things not so in others. AWD yes it would be hevier but it also makes for a better all around performer as said in the video I linked.

Like I said I think GM just dropped the ball and its not going to sell as it is. If it got at least close to 300HP and the Recaro's then maybe it might have the style to get by. But knocking off the HP the AWD and the Recaro's is 3 strikes to many to give it what it needs to be a "sports sedan" of this caliber.


I said my thoughts. Now its just round and round. If they come out with a GSX then thats great! maybe sometime soon. But this car is not going to sell the way GM wants. Esecially if people google what could have been. Many people do that. ANd find that this car fall way short to what could of been.

a 45K AWD 6sp 300HP sport tuned including seats hot rod buick would show many that GM is making a true performance car and not leaving customers to go to other brands. I bet this car would make a lot of the Pontiac guys take a look at the new buick performance cars. Being a 4 door pontiac owner it got my eye. Now it does not. Especially since its not going to deliver like my GXP.

 

Perhaps so. I had been partial to Pontiacs as well, and I agree that if the car was slightly different in those respects perhaps it would appeal to fans of the brand. But then someone might come in and point out that at least for the last several decades of Pontiac, most buyers wouldn't dream of paying anywhere near the $30k's for a Pontiac, with the rare exception of some select models that did not make up a huge portion of sales. But all in all I more or less agree. There by and large isn't a set of GM products that are affordable and sporty (in driving dynamic and style), at least not yet. Buick almost certainly won't go there, so we have to hope that Chevrolet will infuse a little more sport into their lineup, or all of us will end up in Fords or Mazdas. And none of this is aimed at Camaro since it is obviously sporty and affordable, but one 2+2 can't cover the people that bought the 4 door Pontiacs.

 

I disagree that people would not pay $30,000+ for a Pontiac. The problem is there was not a Pontiac GOOD ENOUGH that people were willing to pay the money. I cannot tell you how many $30,000+ Trans Ams I sold in the final year.

The GTO was way, way too conservative. The G8 was the best chance they had, and that car was saddled with low dealer stock for some time, next-to-zero ad budget, and frankly was a VERY nice car, but was not the most aggressive looking thing in the world. It was not revolutionary, and didn't set the world on fire. Look at how many people spent nearly $30,000 back in the late '90s for GTP Grand Prixs!!! Or over that for Bonnevilles a few years prior!

When they took away Pontiac's ad budget, took away product, and watered down the aggressive look, what did GM expect? I don't think people were not willing to spend $30k+ on a Pontiac. Its the fact Pontiac didn't offer them a reason to.

 

Hmmm

I think the G8 looks much more aggressive, in its stance alone, than any of the overly cladded Pontiacs of the '90s. I did really like the GXP version of the Bonnie (which had smoothed out cladding without all the ribbing and such), and the GXP Grand Prix looks pretty sweet as well with its wider stance, big 18s with big brakes, different front fascia, etc.

But the G8 has that raked, short front overhang, BMW-like stance to it. I think it looks hot even in V6 form. The GT on 19s is sweetness.

BTW, I swear I'm not stalking your posts just so I can banter with you!

 

My 98 GTP was just about once the options were stuffed on there. $28k in 1998 is $37k today. That means a G8 GT was actually priced decently, but a G8 GXP was a bit on the high side at $41k.

I see GTPs all over the place along with quite a few SSEI Bonnie's. G8's are rare. I see 97-04 Grand Prix cars every day of every week on the road.

People certainly were willing to spend a lot for a good Pontiac... If they got what they wanted.
It does look great. Too bad the 3.6 wasnt the DI engine and they never offered a manual here in the States.

 

The G8 GXP is a LOT more car than a '98 GTP ever was... I'd suggest that 41k for a G8 GXP, when a GTP was 37k, means that the GXP was a whopping good deal.

 

That would probably be even worse. Now you're in the range of a 335i, any loaded G37, a CTS, an S4, an IS350, and a Charger or 300 SRT8. That's some stiff competition right there. Granted, not all of those have manuals, and not all of them have AWD, but they do all have more than 300hp. They'll be equal or better in size and weight as well (except for maybe the SRT8s?). It would make more sense for the GS to be $30k and the GSX to be $35k or so.

 

Extremely disappointed. Just went to the Miami auto show hoping to check it out and it wasn't there. It was unveiled here, but not in the show.