Send him to the showers. I visit this forum to learn about a future Camaro, not to read about self-promoting salesmen.

 

Of course people seem to forget that was a joke, since one of the poll options was "minivans are doomed for extinction".

 

Apparently, GM feels Buickman is harmless. We should have the same opinion of him.

Am I tired of his self-promoting, I-know-how-to-fix-everything attitude? You betcha. I don't even see how most of his plan would do much of anything to "fix" GM, especially when there is not one mention of product. But if you don't want to read anything he has to say, it's pretty much as simple as skipping over his never-say-die threads here...or even better, there's that option to block certain users....

 

who the hell is BM?

 

Plenty of people here besides him post about things OTHER Than future vehicles...specifically camaro. He has every right to post his opinions here too whether you like them or not. On any given day on the first page of the 5th gen section there are car reviews, big 3 financial reports, news stories regarding automotive companies that are NOT future vehicle related, etc.

HE has started a grand total of 4 (FOUR) threads. If you don't like what he has to say don't open up any of his four threads. IF you don't want to hear him talk about GMs problems in your threads...don't make threads about GMs problems. He's allowed to comment just like anyone else.

 

What he said...

 

Well it might have to do with future sales if you want to stretch it that far, but not much, its just he visits this portion of the forum...

I dont see what the big deal is, if you dont like someone, dont pay any attention to them... If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all...

In this forum, we dont really like outsiders to tell us how to think, unfortunatly those of us who have been here the longest seem like seniority and anywho who has less than 100 posts must be incorrect or have a wrong opinion

But just because Mr. Dollinger has a different perception of the way the sales of cars works then the majority of us because hes on the frontline of GM's hometown, and he has been very successful with his ideas over the last 35 years of being in car sales. Just because he's experianced and accomplished doesnt make him wrong, and it doesnt make him correct, just a different point of view, and if you are too immature to accept the point of view I think that this board might be better off without you... Personally I get along great with everyone, and I find everyones posts having some value and interesting... and to block out someones voice is almost as bad as repeating history... people talk to advise others, people talk to communicate what they know, and people talk to get others to see their point of view. And when someone shuts that door in allowing others to advise them or see their point of view, it allows us all to repeat bad habbits behaviors or buisness practices.

 

Wow...

(10.0+ by the way....)

Interestingly, I posted to the "Banned in Wilmington" thread.....where I thought the thread should be renamed "Banned in CamaroZ28.com!" and that's, I'm sure, what started this thread......so you can flame me.

....and I make no apologies.

I looked and looked and looked at the "plan".........I sent emails back and forth.

For this, I'm now on a spam list.
'
And then I look at the 'Wilmington' thread tonite and see that BM has posted on page 12: "This thread was started to discuss the twenty points. Does anyone have anything to say about them, good or bad?"...and I think to myself.....OK...there's a problem here. Someone isn't listening.....in 12 pages, there have been pros and cons...and yet I have yet to hear this person say "well......that's an interesting point of view...perhaps you're right!"

This forum really concerns me. When Pete Estes named the Camaro, he made comments about the name meaning 'friend, pal, or comrade'.....and perhaps I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression that Jason and Chris created this site so that people --- friends --- could come together to talk about cars....the Camaro in particular.....and hang out. (after all, it IS CamaroZ28.com....not Yugo.com or BMW.com or Nissan.com) Of all the sites out there, I'm appalled at some of the attitudes exhibited on this site (and one or two others) at times.

And Damn if I haven't allowed myself on occasion to be sucked into the mire as well.......

There are a select few on this board that come from the Automobile Manufacturing/engineering/marketing community...(no, I'm not gonna 'out' them)............and what frightens me is that not only do some individuals not listen to them, but we have a zealot who, in my opinion, is a master at self promotion.....and while he "claims" to want GM return to greatness, he won't listen either.

So.......

You could argue that it's a free country and everyone's entitled to his or her opinion.

Fine.

Except that it isn't always black or white.

You can't run into a theatre and yell "FIRE!!!"

You can't go into an airport and joke about bombs.

Now.....you're saying, well, wait a minute, RP.......this isn't the same thing.

Perhaps to you it's not.

But.....I work for GM. There are hundreds of thousands of us that work for GM...there are hundreds of thousands that work for suppliers to GM......hundreds of thousands that work for vendors to GM........hundreds of thousands that work for GM dealerships.......now, I can't speak for them......but Buickman continually slamming GM...esp. Mr. Wagoner....and pushing an agenda that won't work...is, to me....like making bomb jokes in an airport......or yelling 'fire' in a theatre.......it's distracting......and it has the potential to do great harm.

I want to see GM return to greatness.....but in order for that to happen, the men and women at the top of GM HAVE to have a laser-like focus on making that happen. In my opinion, they don't need someone coming to the Annual Shareholder Meeting and spouting forth...and then slamming the CEO...and blaming him.......when in fact, he's not the problem ...and in general, causing ANOTHER distraction. (God knows there are already enough distractions!)


I know this: The stakes are high. We're talking the world's largest Automobile Company.....and one of the largest companies in the world. If things don't get better, I'm here to tell you that the results will be devastating.

I think Buickman has a personal agenda. I think he's very good at self promotion. And I will give him this: There were, as I recall, two of the 20 steps that, in my experience have merit. Both of them, I believe are EXCELLENT ideas!

The rest are undoable, are way too expensive, illegal, or not thought out.

That does not seem to matter to him..........

I work for GM because I choose to. I do not claim that everything Mr. Wagoner says and does is right. But I'm telling you that Buickman does not appear to want to hear any opinions based on experience...or hear opinions that go against his twenty steps...and that's been proven on this site.

So.......Buickman.......I can't stop your publicity machine. We've exchanged emails and not once, as I recall, did you really listen....or value....my opinions or advice. And while you may fool some, I think there are more who see through you. And I know that the ones on this site who have experience and knowledge of this business and have 'been there' -- also see right through you.

Please take me off your spam list.

Please stop slamming Mr. Wagoner.

Please start listening to those who have substantial experience within an automobile company. (and Jerry isn't an expert....sorry!)

And if you REALLY want to help GM, stop demanding money for something that won't work --- then continue to make the changes that need to be made from the retail end of the business.


OK, I've said my piece.

One last thing.......God bless ya, PacerX! At least you had the cojones to post what I was thinking!!!

 

Every email sent from www.GeneralWatch.com has included an unsubscribe enabler. Although we disagree, I respect your right to express your viewpoint, please do the same. Let me make it clear, GM has failed miserably on a consistent basis over twenty years. Finance people play games. Roger had warranty reserves reduced and decreased life expectancy of retirees to show over a billion in paper profit. The games haven't changed. Wagoner has decimated engineering, looks overseas and to outsourcing. Marketing hasn't a clue. Look at the record with Wagoner at the helm, FAILURE! How many more billions will we lose while you blind followers foolishly believe he is anything but a disaster businesswise? Again Fiat...over $4 Billion for nothing. The man should have been tossed out right then. He forecasted $10 per share mid-decade earnings. When it arrived he said "It depends on how you define mid-decade". That is a sign of a double talking, lame excuse for CEO. He was right in a way about the $10, problem is it's a loss.
By the way Mr FBod, I demanded nothing. Get it straight, I said if it works, pay me. Don't put words in my mouth thank you.

 

I don't think he should be banned, but he reminds me of the kid who really wanted to be the smartest kid in the class, but in reality was not even in the top 10.

 

Buickman,

You remind me of Ed Mullane.

That is not a compliment.

And who are you calling a blind follower???

 

the most painful thing is seeing Buickman reply to Red with a blatant disregard for anything he said, but instead just bashing GM even more. i liken a conversation with Buickman to that of talking with a trained parrot.

 

Most painful thing to me is seeing GM lose $1.2 Billion 2nd quarter in NA. The third will be worse.

 

I think he was talking about your mom...

Comon, lets not get into this crap again... Red Planet you just said how you were tired of everyone getting sucked into hostile debates... and you dont need to start name calling...I respect you for working for GM, I wish some day I will atleast have the oppertunity as well as have the priviledge to be apart of something great at GM. Unfortunatly I am only 20 and have sidelined my schooling efforts for financial and time reasons.

Like I have said time and time again, The road to success, is the vehicles that people drive, the vehicle should be the number one incentive to buy a car, not some lowsy employee deal... The best automanufacture in the world shouldnt need incentives for people to flock to their dealership... Forget the marketing devision, put your money where your mouth is and put that money into the product. Perhaps that would be a cheaper car yet. Maybe if that were the case GM would have given us out f-body by now, maybe not...

Maybe the F-body is really gone, and our delusional mindstate has created mirrages from the plain asphalt.

GM has had some seriously kick *** cars... but when a car just isnt exciting, why should anyone buy it, I guess if "you pay what we pay" then its now an exciting car, and its worth buying because I love GM. But do I really? Do I really like the cars coming out today, Do I really like 2005 GM? or do I like to be Meloncholic and Nostalgic? Do I like GM 10,15,20,40 years ago better then I do today? Probably, Why? because GM was really innovative and created some cars that still today people wish they had. My best friends dad owns his teenage dream car a 1969 SS Chevelle one of the only Chevys to ever outpower the vette for its time, originally white (rarest) but put a primium paint (red with black stripes) and loves it more then his SL55 Mercedies, more than the ferarri he might buy in the next year. He loves GM, when he was a kid. I share with you this about my friend, and his whole family loves Chevys, that is why I love GM.

But Is GM really turned around? Do they even see a U turn sign in sight? or has toyota posted "NO U TURN" Signs up and down the road for the last 15 years?

Now what are we all looking on This forum for? We all Love our cars, We all hope for the best for GM, we all want desireable cars to come out in the future, and for the most of us, dont see those cars coming from any other automanufacture but sees hope in the road that lies in front of GM. We all want the same thing, We all think things need to get better before they get worse. And I dont know about the rest of you, but I beg the question be asked to Bob Lutz or Mark LaVene or Wagooner or whomever wants to respond to me, "What can I do to help?"

"What can any one of us do, to help all of us achive the same goal, the success of GM and the production of overly satisfactory vehicles in our future."

These are the questions that I ask, These are the questions I hope some of you ask, I dont know about all the bickering and fuss that goes on around here, and I dont know that anything we really do here is productive, and/or counterproductive.
So can we be civil?
Can we be rational?
Can we all point our furry to the enemy (other automakers) instead of having a civil war?

 

This isnt a Civil War unless buickman works for GM in some way we dont know about.