Actually, minivans only save 2-3 MPG over the best of the big SUVs. The initial purchase price of a minivan over a big SUV isn't much of a saving either. Compare a well equipped AWD minivan against a fullsized 4x4 SUV, and you'll also see that there isn't very much of an upfront savings in purchase price.

Granted, vans like the Toyota Siena and Honda Oddysey are very space efficient. So is the Dodge Sprinter. So what?

Crossovers and fullsized SUVs are slowly squeezing the minivan out of the automotive mainstream.

 

There really aren't any problems with the GTO, especially not any "deep" problems. They sold and conintinue to sell every one of them. And while I do not personally like the style of the SSR, Armada and its badge engineered Infiniti variant is not that far away. Infiniti has an especially dorky front, if I may use your word.



Though Nissan's interiors look more appealing than those of Century/Regal, quality in this context means that stuff works and does not break. Look at VW, it has "quality" appearance, yet it scores quite low as far as reliability is concerned. J.D. Power is pretty clear about what its reports mean: number of problems per vehicle. If a Nissan has 300 problems per 100 vehicles, there is only one way that can be interpreted.

edit: Aren't you the one who quoted Consumers report on the Saturn plant? Tsk tsk tsk.


Suit yourself, Pinocchio.

 

I'll disagree with that right up front, but even if true, over the course of a 20 gallon tank of gas you're looking at 40-60 miles of extra range in the van, and that can add up quite a bit over the life of the vehicle.

 

As in here, the general public views minivans as having the "soccer mom" stigma attached to them. I would never buy one no matter how useful, inexpensive or fuel efficient they are. IF you can get past the stigma, the are grossly underpowered (generally), not really that fuel efficient & are a 10 on the lameness scale.
People like SUVs. GM tried to make a minivan look like an SUV = Aztec. We all now how well that went.

People NEED utility.
People WANT image/style.

SUVs = rugged, sporty, adventurous, powerful, cool, etc.
MV = whimpy, lame, soccer mom, weak, totally un-cool

my $.02

 

We need an Uplander SS !!!

 

Caravan GTS Turbo!

 

Does anyone remember in the mid 90's when there were high performance minivan concepts? Ford put out an SHO version, I think they called it the SHOstar. There was also an RT Caravan and a few other concepts similar to these. I guess they figured that the market wasn't there and it seems to me that they are right.

 

If I could get a minivan w/ an LS1 or LS2 engine in it, I'd reconsider my stance on the subject.

 

Or how about an HHR with a LSx in it! IMHO, a very cool alternative to the dreaded mini-vans! Personally I think the minivan stigma is the reason the pt cruiser did so well, its like a cool looking alternative! Also why I think HHR will do well, IMHO its much COOLER! An LSx w/DoD, and it would be really sweet! Doubt it will happen though! And no I don't think they should get out of that segment.

 

I've owned both.

A 7 passenger, V6, minivan gets substantially better gas mileage than a half ton heavier, V8, 7 passenger SUV; MSRP's for thousands less; drives much nicer - like a car vs a truck.......and if you've got a bunch of kids and their stuff......no crossover or SUV can compare to a minivan's usefulness.

I speak from experience.

 

You want to know the truth Darth....I think that's a good idea. I'm not kidding.

 

It would be untested water... to be honest, I don't disagree with you... I mean, think about what the Magnum R/T and especially the SRT-8 really are... a hopped up station wagon, and people seem to really like it.


Some people may laugh at the idea (I admit , even I do to a point...) but I bet few people thoght that a "suped up bathtub Caprice" would have been super cool until the saw the Impala SS....

But, Gimme my Avalanche SS first, please!

 

Talking about hopped up minivans, didnt Chrysler release a few in the '80s during the turbo Charger and Shelby Charger era? I've actually seen a few '80's turbo Caravans out on the road. Also there is a clip floating around the internet that shows a light-blue turbo Caravan with wood panels SMOKING an LS1 Z28 at the track.

Probably, bc right now, it doesnt look like Buick or Saturn care if their minivans live on. Doesnt quite fit their new image, esp Saturns.

 

My mother has had 2 of the Venture vans. One was sold after 180K miles and the other is getting on about 130K miles (01 model). I've borrowed those things to do things like go on road trips to Talladega, AL, and whatnot. They just wont get under 30mpg!! Between the 2 vans and gazillions of miles have been the casualties of 1 water pump, 1 battery, and one headlight lens...

The only problem with GM mini's is perception.

But that's America for ya...

 

Ford me, the choice was between an AWD Toyota Sienna and a Nissan Armada 4x4. The Toyota would have been $2-3K cheaper and probably would have had fuel economy in the low 20MPG range.

I chose the Armada. Bigger, quicker and better to drive. I'm getting 16 MPG in town and 18 MPG on the highway. Better than I expect.

I'm glad I didn't buy a minivan.