View Poll Results: Should GM leave the minivan market?
Yes!
12
22.64%
No!
20
37.74%
It doesn't matter! Minivans are headed towards extinction.
7
13.21%
I really don't care.
14
26.42%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll
AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Trying!
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AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Trying!
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102715
...and another article......
Originally Posted by Autoweek
Despite newer offerings, minivan segment continues to be tough going for GM, Ford
JOHN K. TEAHEN JR. | Automotive News
Posted Date: 7/5/05
DETROIT -- General Motors and Ford Motor Co. do many things well, but selling minivans is not one of them.
Even new product doesn't help. Ford's Freestar arrived in the 2004 model year, and the Buick Terraza, Chevrolet Uplander, Pontiac Montana SV6 and Saturn Relay are new for the 2005 season. But the new minivans haven't moved the needle on the sales chart.
On the other half of the "what's hot, what's not" game is the Chrysler Town & Country, which has vaulted to second place this year in minivan sales behind the Dodge Caravan. The new Honda Odyssey also is strong, and the Toyota Sienna is still riding high after a 50.8 percent sales gain in 2004.
The Sienna outsold both Ford and GM minivans last year, and the Odyssey beat Ford and was only 2,931 units behind all of GM.
Those four nameplates, Caravan, Town & Country, Odyssey and Sienna, account for 66.0 percent of minivan sales. There are 16 minivan nameplates.
GM sold more than 300,000 minivans a year from 1997 to 2000. But its sales have fallen off a cliff since then. Last year's count was 157,169. Ford peaked at 384,746 in 1995. Its descent since then has been steady and painful - to 120,979 in 2004. Chrysler's biggest year was 1996, when it sold 538,807 minivans. It sold 386,664 last year.
It started with Sperlich
Ever since Ford expatriate Harold Sperlich brought the minivan to market at Chrysler Corp. in the 1984 model year, Chrysler has been the leader. Ford and GM have been so far behind it has been no contest.
Sperlich was a Ford vice president who couldn't sell his minivan concept to Ford. When he followed Lee Iacocca to Chrysler, the idea was received with open arms.
According to Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing/Research Inc. in Bandon, Ore., Ford doesn't care much about minivans. Perhaps it is an outgrowth of Ford's long-ago rejection of Sperlich's idea. The Ford Freestar, which replaced the Windstar, is not a hit.
GM is committed to the segment, Spinella says, but even with 10 nameplates in six brands over the years, it has never achieved strong sales. Spinella notes that it is awfully expensive to gain market share in that segment. He thinks GM's market share "will probably increase incrementally."
GM now sells seven minivans - three from Chevrolet and one each from Buick, GMC, Pontiac and Saturn. Combined, they had a meager 14.1 percent of last year's minivan market.
Ford had only 10.9 percent, while the Chrysler group pulled in 34.8 percent with its 386,664 deliveries. GM now calls its 2005 entries "crossover sport vans." The vehicles were based on GM's existing minivan architecture but have tall, SUV-like front-end styling. The goal is to create an SUV-styled vehicle that avoids the soccer-mom image associated with minivans.
Soccer moms rebel
Minivan sales boomed in the 1980s and 1990s as the vehicles became the standby of soccer moms. But soccer moms became disenchanted with wheels that had grown stodgy. Many of them turned to SUVs. Minivan sales, which reached a record 1,399,578 in 2000, fell 23.2 percent to 1,074,681 in 2003.
They rebounded to 1,110,817 (up 3.4 percent) last year, helped by fresh styling, new features and new players. But continuing the up-and-down pattern, minivan sales were off 1.0 percent in the first five months of this year.
As in all other parts of the market, the Japanese are the comers in minivans. Last year the Toyota Sienna was second in sales, and the Honda Odyssey was third. As always, the Dodge Caravan was the leader.
Japanese nameplates racked up 384,647 sales last year, just 2,017 fewer than the Chrysler group. As recently as 2002, the Japanese were 122,409 units behind Chrysler. The Japanese have been making up some, but not all, of the Big 3 loss. In the heyday of domestic minivans, the Japanese were minor players.
The Japanese have been innovative as well as sales gainers. The Odyssey beat the Chrysler group with hideaway minivan seats, and the Chrysler entries got back on track only after they added Stow 'n Go seats on some models in early 2004.
No thanks, Ford says
George Pipas, Ford Motor sales analysis and reporting manager, sounds unenthusiastic about minivans. "Are we trying to boost our share of that segment?" Pipas asked rhetorically. "No. It would be foolish to say that we are. We're going to muddle along at about 10 percent of that segment.
"There's no strategy by which we're going to enhance our position in the next year or two, given the current product. I think the sport wagon segment is more desirable than the minivan market."
Sport wagons are car-based SUVs. Their sales have been rising significantly, while sales of truck-based SUVs have been falling.
Although last year's sales were only 157,169 from eight entries, GM is still high on minivans.
"It's a very stable but competitive segment," said Paul Ballew, GM executive director of sales and market analysis. "Now you have a new Sienna, a new Quest, new minivans from Chrysler and a new Odyssey. We're holding our own right now."
He acknowledged that the growth of 20 years ago is not likely to happen again, but "the minivan segment is still carving out its niche." He said GM will concentrate on upgrading the product and said incentives are down from 2003 and 2004 because of new product.
Gail Kachadourian contributed to this report
JOHN K. TEAHEN JR. | Automotive News
Posted Date: 7/5/05
DETROIT -- General Motors and Ford Motor Co. do many things well, but selling minivans is not one of them.
Even new product doesn't help. Ford's Freestar arrived in the 2004 model year, and the Buick Terraza, Chevrolet Uplander, Pontiac Montana SV6 and Saturn Relay are new for the 2005 season. But the new minivans haven't moved the needle on the sales chart.
On the other half of the "what's hot, what's not" game is the Chrysler Town & Country, which has vaulted to second place this year in minivan sales behind the Dodge Caravan. The new Honda Odyssey also is strong, and the Toyota Sienna is still riding high after a 50.8 percent sales gain in 2004.
The Sienna outsold both Ford and GM minivans last year, and the Odyssey beat Ford and was only 2,931 units behind all of GM.
Those four nameplates, Caravan, Town & Country, Odyssey and Sienna, account for 66.0 percent of minivan sales. There are 16 minivan nameplates.
GM sold more than 300,000 minivans a year from 1997 to 2000. But its sales have fallen off a cliff since then. Last year's count was 157,169. Ford peaked at 384,746 in 1995. Its descent since then has been steady and painful - to 120,979 in 2004. Chrysler's biggest year was 1996, when it sold 538,807 minivans. It sold 386,664 last year.
It started with Sperlich
Ever since Ford expatriate Harold Sperlich brought the minivan to market at Chrysler Corp. in the 1984 model year, Chrysler has been the leader. Ford and GM have been so far behind it has been no contest.
Sperlich was a Ford vice president who couldn't sell his minivan concept to Ford. When he followed Lee Iacocca to Chrysler, the idea was received with open arms.
According to Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing/Research Inc. in Bandon, Ore., Ford doesn't care much about minivans. Perhaps it is an outgrowth of Ford's long-ago rejection of Sperlich's idea. The Ford Freestar, which replaced the Windstar, is not a hit.
GM is committed to the segment, Spinella says, but even with 10 nameplates in six brands over the years, it has never achieved strong sales. Spinella notes that it is awfully expensive to gain market share in that segment. He thinks GM's market share "will probably increase incrementally."
GM now sells seven minivans - three from Chevrolet and one each from Buick, GMC, Pontiac and Saturn. Combined, they had a meager 14.1 percent of last year's minivan market.
Ford had only 10.9 percent, while the Chrysler group pulled in 34.8 percent with its 386,664 deliveries. GM now calls its 2005 entries "crossover sport vans." The vehicles were based on GM's existing minivan architecture but have tall, SUV-like front-end styling. The goal is to create an SUV-styled vehicle that avoids the soccer-mom image associated with minivans.
Soccer moms rebel
Minivan sales boomed in the 1980s and 1990s as the vehicles became the standby of soccer moms. But soccer moms became disenchanted with wheels that had grown stodgy. Many of them turned to SUVs. Minivan sales, which reached a record 1,399,578 in 2000, fell 23.2 percent to 1,074,681 in 2003.
They rebounded to 1,110,817 (up 3.4 percent) last year, helped by fresh styling, new features and new players. But continuing the up-and-down pattern, minivan sales were off 1.0 percent in the first five months of this year.
As in all other parts of the market, the Japanese are the comers in minivans. Last year the Toyota Sienna was second in sales, and the Honda Odyssey was third. As always, the Dodge Caravan was the leader.
Japanese nameplates racked up 384,647 sales last year, just 2,017 fewer than the Chrysler group. As recently as 2002, the Japanese were 122,409 units behind Chrysler. The Japanese have been making up some, but not all, of the Big 3 loss. In the heyday of domestic minivans, the Japanese were minor players.
The Japanese have been innovative as well as sales gainers. The Odyssey beat the Chrysler group with hideaway minivan seats, and the Chrysler entries got back on track only after they added Stow 'n Go seats on some models in early 2004.
No thanks, Ford says
George Pipas, Ford Motor sales analysis and reporting manager, sounds unenthusiastic about minivans. "Are we trying to boost our share of that segment?" Pipas asked rhetorically. "No. It would be foolish to say that we are. We're going to muddle along at about 10 percent of that segment.
"There's no strategy by which we're going to enhance our position in the next year or two, given the current product. I think the sport wagon segment is more desirable than the minivan market."
Sport wagons are car-based SUVs. Their sales have been rising significantly, while sales of truck-based SUVs have been falling.
Although last year's sales were only 157,169 from eight entries, GM is still high on minivans.
"It's a very stable but competitive segment," said Paul Ballew, GM executive director of sales and market analysis. "Now you have a new Sienna, a new Quest, new minivans from Chrysler and a new Odyssey. We're holding our own right now."
He acknowledged that the growth of 20 years ago is not likely to happen again, but "the minivan segment is still carving out its niche." He said GM will concentrate on upgrading the product and said incentives are down from 2003 and 2004 because of new product.
Gail Kachadourian contributed to this report
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Re: AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Try
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102716
Originally Posted by Autoweek
Radically different products possible from GM, Ford as Chrysler's minivan dominance continues
Posted Date: 7/5/05
By MARY CONNELLY and AMY WILSON and JASON STEIN
Automotive News
DETROIT -- For 20 years, General Motors and Ford Motor Co. have wrestled with how to respond to top dog Chrysler in the minivan wars.
Their latest attempts have fared poorly - not only against Chrysler but also Toyota, Honda and others. So what will the Big 2 do next?
One thing is for sure. It won't be more of the same.
Sources say GM will replace its current minivans with radically designed models. New versions of the Chevrolet Uplander and Pontiac Montana SV6 are planned in 2008, with extended-wheelbase offerings expected a year later. But GM is mulling over replacements for the Buick Terraza and Saturn Relay. Both models could be canceled, sources say.
Ford executives, who admit the company doesn't earn much on minivans, are looking for a better idea. The Fairlane concept model, exhibited at the 2005 Detroit auto show, is Ford's latest notion of a mainstream people mover.
With a Land Rover look and lots of glass, the Fairlane departs significantly from the one-box minivan of the past. Ford design chief J Mays has said it could take the "diaper" stigma away from conventional minivan buyers.
Ford officials have said that if the company adds something like the Fairlane, it would not need a traditional minivan.
Meanwhile, the next-generation Chrysler and Dodge minivans are expected to be highly differentiated when they are re-engineered and reskinned for the 2008 model year.
The planned re-engineering is "substantial," an insider says. The exterior was described as "evolutionary, but an all-new look."
Chrysler will unveil the minivans at the 2007 Detroit auto show.
Ralph Gilles, the Chrysler designer who created the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum, is in charge of the company's next-generation minivans.
Posted Date: 7/5/05
By MARY CONNELLY and AMY WILSON and JASON STEIN
Automotive News
DETROIT -- For 20 years, General Motors and Ford Motor Co. have wrestled with how to respond to top dog Chrysler in the minivan wars.
Their latest attempts have fared poorly - not only against Chrysler but also Toyota, Honda and others. So what will the Big 2 do next?
One thing is for sure. It won't be more of the same.
Sources say GM will replace its current minivans with radically designed models. New versions of the Chevrolet Uplander and Pontiac Montana SV6 are planned in 2008, with extended-wheelbase offerings expected a year later. But GM is mulling over replacements for the Buick Terraza and Saturn Relay. Both models could be canceled, sources say.
Ford executives, who admit the company doesn't earn much on minivans, are looking for a better idea. The Fairlane concept model, exhibited at the 2005 Detroit auto show, is Ford's latest notion of a mainstream people mover.
With a Land Rover look and lots of glass, the Fairlane departs significantly from the one-box minivan of the past. Ford design chief J Mays has said it could take the "diaper" stigma away from conventional minivan buyers.
Ford officials have said that if the company adds something like the Fairlane, it would not need a traditional minivan.
Meanwhile, the next-generation Chrysler and Dodge minivans are expected to be highly differentiated when they are re-engineered and reskinned for the 2008 model year.
The planned re-engineering is "substantial," an insider says. The exterior was described as "evolutionary, but an all-new look."
Chrysler will unveil the minivans at the 2007 Detroit auto show.
Ralph Gilles, the Chrysler designer who created the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum, is in charge of the company's next-generation minivans.
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Re: AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Trying!
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
Hey, how's that Nissan minivan workin' out? 
Yeah, talk about a non-competitor.
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Re: AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Try
Originally Posted by SNEAKY NEIL
Yeah, talk about a non-competitor.
Is the Quest better than the Uplander/Montana SV6/Relay/Terraza clones? Yes, just about every minivan on the market is better than GM's sad sack re-freshed 1997 vintage offerings. I'll even give the new Hyundai/Kia vans the benefit of the doubt.
Will the Quest outlive the Buick Terraza and Saturn Relay?
Right now, it looks like it will.
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Re: AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Try
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
Hey, how's that Nissan minivan workin' out?
.....And I don't own either vehicle. Thankfully.
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From: Ohio
Re: AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Try
Originally Posted by redzed
Well, there isn't a Nissan Quest in my driveway.
Is the Quest better than the Uplander/Montana SV6/Relay/Terraza clones? Yes, just about every minivan on the market is better than GM's sad sack re-freshed 1997 vintage offerings. I'll even give the new Hyundai/Kia vans the benefit of the doubt.
Will the Quest outlive the Buick Terraza and Saturn Relay?
Right now, it looks like it will.
Is the Quest better than the Uplander/Montana SV6/Relay/Terraza clones? Yes, just about every minivan on the market is better than GM's sad sack re-freshed 1997 vintage offerings. I'll even give the new Hyundai/Kia vans the benefit of the doubt.
Will the Quest outlive the Buick Terraza and Saturn Relay?
Right now, it looks like it will.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the GM minivans are more successful as far as sales go.
The "ashtray outside of the local bank" center stack on the Quest is a total joke. LOL.
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Re: AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Try
Minivans are a dead segment. DCX is the only one who should be making them. Every new parent or 20-30something I know things they are lame and will never buy one. 7 seat SUVs and cross overs are the wave of the future.
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Re: AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Try
Originally Posted by redzed
The Nissan Quest was still less of a flop than the 2004 GTO. Think about it.
.....And I don't own either vehicle. Thankfully.
.....And I don't own either vehicle. Thankfully.
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Re: AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Try
Originally Posted by Z28x
Minivans are a dead segment. DCX is the only one who should be making them. Every new parent or 20-30something I know things they are lame and will never buy one. 7 seat SUVs and cross overs are the wave of the future.
I don't see Toyota or Honda suffering, though.
And I was very wrong about "stow 'n go." DCX customers love. DCX customers probably don't even mind the lack of stability control and an AWD option.
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Re: AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Try
Originally Posted by redzed
The Freestyle was probably "the last nail in the coffin" for the Freestar.
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Re: AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Try
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
Interesting... seeing that they are going to sell every GTO they build, and they have sold so many at this point for the 05 model year that they GM has chosen to withdraw it from the extended Employtee Pricing program.... joining only Corvette on the exempt list.
That sad leftover 2004 GTO will eventually be sold.
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Re: AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Try
Originally Posted by redzed
Every car that has ever been built.....has been sold....eventually.
That sad leftover 2004 GTO will eventually be sold.
That sad leftover 2004 GTO will eventually be sold.
I would guess if I cared enough to dig around at the local Nissan dealer, you know Nissan, who scored well below the industry avergae in JD Power's long term reliability ratings.... that I could probably have them dig me up an 04 model of various sorts sitting on a few lots around the country on a vehicle search.
Besides... I'm calling you out. Just give me the name of the dealership that has this 04 GTO.
Me thinks you = caught in your little lie.
Last edited by Darth Xed; Jul 5, 2005 at 03:48 PM.
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Re: AutoWeek(x2): GM, Ford strike out in the minvan market, Ford Quits, GM Keeps Try
Originally Posted by Chrome383Z
Hell I think there's still a 02 Z28 at a dealership in a Po-Dunk town about 10min from our town. heh