At the moment, Pontiac is by far GM's weakest brand. We all have discussed the issues here so I won't rehash them. Instead, I wanted to address two very recent trends that I see as possible nails in the brand's coffin.

First problem: CAFE regulations. No one has discussed this, but the new law mandating 35 mpg by 2020 might very well kill an all RWD Pontiac based on Holden imports. G8 would need to do very well to make it worth the hassle of redesigning it as a Pontiac-specific,fuel efficient vehicle in the next generation. Even if they could design RWD cars making 35 mpg that people actually want to buy, why would they? It seems that would be very low on GM's priorities when it is scrambling to make fuel economy numbers.

Second problem: Buick's resurgence. When GM combined Pontiac, GMC and Buick into one channel, they essentially made them competitors with one another. Buick looked like the odd man out for a time, but now it has a hit in the Enclave. The LaCrosse is reputed to be a ringer - and Pontiac isn't even getting a new Epsilon. All this is great for Buick and GM as a whole, but seems to weigh against Pontiac getting more resources.

Beyond those issues, there seems to be an air of inevitability here. With the Grand Prix's demise, Pontiac has two stand alone (non-rebadge) models - G6 and Solstice. Even these cars are weaker variants of vehicles featured in other brands (Malibu, Aura, Sky). Pontiac has no hybrids, no Lambda's, no future mid-size.

Am I wrong here? Has anyone heard about what's happening to Pontiac products? Is Alpha alive? If so, is it going to end up in Cadillac's hands?

I am not optimistic, personally. I am happy to see GM's resurgence, but am becoming more and more certain that my favorite brand will not be part of it.

 

The problem regarding designing RWD cars that attain 35 mpg isn't really a problem specific to RWD cars, they face the exact same challenges with FWD cars - especially the larger models. The challenges facing the Holden imports as Pontiacs is that the VE cars are large and as a result, fairly heavy - a result I believe, of engineering the cars to meet among other things, safety standards both current (and future) in multiple locales not to mention all the power amenities that are added because customers have an expectation of things like power windows, seats, locks, IRS, etc.

Regarding Alpha, it's still way too early to tell, but if I recall, the platform is/was to be inherently smaller and lighter than VE/Zeta so that could mean RWD cars can still be an option with increased fuel efficiency.

As someone said in another thread the biggest challenge is all those less fuel efficient because of their nature, full-size trucks that drag down the fuel efficiency average for the fleet.

Personally, I've been waiting a loooonnng time for the return of affordable RWD (not just Camaro) to GMNA product without the stigma of it being considered a luxury or high end and therefore expensive type of car. I'd hate to see it finally in sight, only to evaporate again like it did in the 80s when the RWD cars of the day were intentionally not updated so they would wither and die or like the Caprice; hideously updated style-wise but not updated engineering-wise.

 

The 2013 (next generation Corvette/XLR/Solstice) is alive and well, if that counts for anything, and it certainly does for me.

I'm hearing that the Corvette will be pretty radically different from what we are used to, a major change for the car.

 

Corvette will see a DCT around that time. Though I'm sure that's not the extent of the radical change.

 

I don't know where Pontiac is going.

There have been more than afew hints that Pontiac is out of the Alpha program.

Zeta appears to be imploding.

No replacement for the G6.

 

Now the C7 is a 2013. it has gone from 2011 to 2012 to now 2013? I thought Lutz wanted the C7 out sooner so GM could build RHD Vettes

We have already discussed this, the new CAFE isn't that big of a deal. GM will have no problem meeting it. Throw a 2.9L Diesel V6 in the G8

 

What does DCT stand for/mean?

 

Well, I think CAFE is a big deal. GM will meet those numbers, but not without some product changes.

And would you pay a several thousand dollar premium for a 2.9L diesel over an LSx V8 in a G8?

 

That right there is a bundle of not good. It's kind of hard to field a division with saleable cars - on no platforms - if what you're saying comes to pass.

I for one hope Zeta will be salvaged and Pontiac gets Alpha. Pontiac needs product. The flip-side of what you say could mean that Pontiac becomes Holden NA with a lineup of Pontiac-ed versions of Holden cars? As a Pontiac owner and enthusiast I don't know if that's a truly desirable direction either, despite being a big fan of what Holden has churned out in the past few years. But that doesn't get around or satisfy CAFE requirements now does it?

I thought that GM was committed to maintaining all their remaining divisions supposedly hesitant to kill another one, given the lessons learned when Olds was folded.

 

Dual Twin Clutch?

 

Maybe I haven't been paying attention, I thought the next solstice and sky were going to be on the alpha.

The G6 and G5 need more help. We test drove the G6 along with eight other cars. It still looks good on the outside and the Base V6 has pretty good gas milage compared with others but the interior is ugly and cheap. Ditto on the G5. That that being said about those two I saw a G8 in N. Indiana on Dec 26th. Sweet car. Beautiful. I can't beleive its 3900-4000lbs. Its nearly identical in size to my wifes Aura. Weres the extra 400lbs at? The aura gets 24 out of 25 stars for saftey.

The G8 has been talked about on here before though. I guess where I am going with this is that most folks buying pontiac have pontiac in the family. I doubt alot of folks are going to swoop into Pontiac and drop 30K for the G8. Many big city gen X and gen Y put pontiac on the same level as Kia and Ford. Having lower end cars to bring in first time buyers is important, GM has failed in all divisions at that. GM has turned into a company selling to Baby boomers. As boomers retire and lose income or as the 401K's dry up Gm is going to dry up.

The Malibu is a start, but its still aimed at those 30 and above. I can only hope gm pushes G6 forward and keeps it the same size and aims at 20-30 year olds.

The solstice had a low price point going for it. Nice product, low price, NEW customers to pontiac. The G6 and G5 aren't going to do that.

Slightly off topic: I read something amazing in a car mag the other day. As most cars go through redesigns they get bigger and bigger. Civic, malibu, CTS. The next madza6 did the same and its coming out in a few months. I think it gained 6 inches and length and a little width. Heres the news flash is 77lbs less. Ford has figured it out. Invest in some high strength steel.

 

At this point, I wouldn't mind seeing Pontiac refocus itself as a youth brand - something along the lines of an American Scion.

 

Great idea, I have thought the same, otherwise GM doesn't have the money to diffrentiate it from Chevy. Like I mentioned above, leave the next G6 the same size, lose some weight. Give pontiac a box like the Xb off the HHR set-up. Drop Torrent, let the G8 run its cycle and give the money to Chevy towards the Impala and a Buick Regal or Roadmaster.

 

 

I don't know, I think the 'new' chvy could be the youth brand. Unless pontiac can get back towards more artistic, expressive styling (the only sex symbols they have right now is the solstilce and G6 coupe (which is a little bit of a stretch)), I'd still be of the optinion Pontiac can be killed.