Well, now we can add another nail to Pontiac's coffin: Lutz's announcement on the GTO. We couldn't have a Firebird because there was no room for it with GTO and all those other wonderful Zeta products. Now we have no GTO and Camaro looks like the only NA Zeta to show for Holden's $1 million dollar investment.

What's next for Pontiac? Is Alpha really alive. If so, does Pontiac still have a peice of the pie or has it been pushed aside as usual?

 

Two things.

1) Do you realize that you're linking back to the site that I quit why would I check them out? They know nothing more than I do, in fact, they're outdated.

2) We've waited a few years already for Pontiac to get the attention that it needs. We've gotten band-aids along the way.

The E-Flex Pontiac is going to be FANTASTIC. Think hybrid meets performance. Then hold on tight. That's all I'm sayin'.

And to Camino....umm you do have to register there. That's probably yet another "host" issue though, I'm assuming.

And for the record, the Torrent is NOT going to be the GMC when it comes to pass. It will be a completely different vehicle.

 

You do not have to register, a setting was wrong. (now fixed)

And the hosting issue has been resolved.

 

You've mentioned the E-Flex Pontiac a few times? Can you elaborate more on this? This is the first time I'm hearing about this.

 

I think you put it better than I did. Without a doubt, the '97-'03 was the last DECENT, COMPETITIVE offering Pontiac had. Who didn't want one in '97? My mom ordered brand new both a '98 GT sedan and an '01 GT sedan...my sister still has the '01, and we all love that car for what it is...a bulletproof, attractive, sporty car with solid performance for the time (a little slow these days for sure). I still miss my '01 GT Coupe, and would still be driving it if I didn't have a demo. By now, if I had kept it it would have 145k miles or so on it...and I'd still be running it hard. I sold it with 66k in '06, and the new owner just put it up for sale...they love it, but are having their 3rd kid...

While I love DRIVING our Comp G, I'm not so crazy about LOOKING at it. In black, with some mods, its a sharp car...but there's nothing you can do to make the inside decent. The only thing better about it versus the old car are the seats...Pontiac figured out finally enthusiast cars don't need flat seats!!!

My point is this: Pontiac was ALWAYS mainstream performance...like Nissan, like Mazda. An industry giant like GM is foolish to have thrown that away. Someone above said I needed a marketing degree to figure out that Pontiac isn't a company, its a division. Well, no ****. And as such, GM dropped the ball in the worst way. Pontiac had a VERY loyal following, that has significantly dried up.

Sum this up: What car does Pontiac have that is BETTER than another GM offering?? G5? Nope...not even an SS equivalent. G6? Completely overshadowed by the Aura and Malibu. Solstice? Many people prefer the Sky (although I don't...)...its as good as, not better. Torrent? Not needed. G8? Its about time...

WOW...ONE PRODUCT. The writing is on the wall if people care to see it. GM will probably not follow through with Pontiac's renaissance. All those pretty little new Saturns you see? Shoulda been Pontiacs...THAT, IMO, is what happened to Pontiac. Saturn ran right over it.

Saturn should be the Scion fighter, not Pontiac. Some people need to wake up...UNLESS GM follows through with the plan to give it solid, RWD, true performance offerings, its toast. And even then, I still think it should be the Saturn of today....mainstream, performance-oriented, attractive products with an edge over the Chevy. Right now, we aren't even close. As I said before...one product (G8) does not make an entire lineup.

Pontiac never should've been in this position in the first place. How many '97-'03 GP buyers already have something else?? They're in Maximas, Altimas, and even Accords...I know, I lost sales to them when the '04+ came out. As much as I love our car, its half-baked at best...I've come to accept it, but I still don't like it nearly as much as the older cars...

 

I'm actually currently looking to scoop up an off-lease '06+ GXP GP, or '05 Bonnie GXP, t to possibly replace the Comp G. We don't need a new car by any stretch, but its my last chance at an awesome, late model, low mileage Pontiac. I will not have her in a G8 year-round. I know what you guys say about studded snows and all, but I ain't putting her in RWD. Put studded snows on the RWD and the FWD, and go tell me which is better. I've done it.

The Bonnie, IMO, is another example of GM's right-on-the-money capability that showed up too late. If the '00 Bonnies looked and drove like the '05 SLE and GXP right off the bat, they would've been smash hits, like the '92+ car. But in the midst of Zarella-ism, as I call it, those got screwed, too.

If it sounds like I'm bitter, its because I really, really am. In 20 years, my immediate family alone and I have owned 4 Grand Ams ('91 SE H.O. Quad 4 sedan, '95 Grand Am SE 3100 coupe, '98 SE Sedan, '02 GT coupe), 5 Grand Prixs ('95 SE sedan, '98 GT sedan, '01 GT sedan, '01 GT coupe, '04 Comp G) and 2 Formulas ('89 305 TPI, '02). That's 11 Pontiacs, still owning 3. My sister will replace her GP with a new Vue in a year or two (hates the Torrent), my dad is talking about selling me the Formula so he can buy a Sky Redline, and if we didn't have the Comp G (or whatever replaces it soon, if anything does), she'd have bought an Aura XE a year ago. What the hell does Pontiac have? One RWD sedan...

Without realizing it, I actually proved my own theory, with my own family, about Saturn taking over Pontiac. WOW I never thought of it with regard to my own family before...

At least we're still into GM, but its still sad...Saturn heritage means nothing to me, as it has none. Pontiac goes way back, and resonates with so many people.

 

My 98 GTP Sedan has 99k on the odometer. I cant justify getting rid of it. I love driving it every day, it never lets me down, and its a cheap car to maintain on the regular stuff. I've found cars that are better in many ways, but they just dont come together and make me smile to the point where I could justify the expense.

And the performance isnt amazing, but its still VERY fast for on-ramps and driving at legal speeds...

I'm trying to stick with GM too. I'll +1 the brand though. For some reason I'm proud of my Chevy and my Pontiac, and even my Oldsmobile. A Saturn though.... just doesnt seems something to be proud of.

 

I fully intended to drive my '01 to 200k before dumping it. GM was the only one who made a larger-midsized COUPE...now I can't get that anymore either. The Monte was DOA since it came back in '95. Don't get me wrong...I still pine for an '06-'07 SS...but to be honest, if I hadn't always been a GM guy, I never would've noticed that car...

And I know what you mean about pride. Everytime I wash the Comp G, then take it out for a spin, I love it...and think about all the old Pontiacs I had. My trusty, rusty '89 Formula...learning to drive on Dad's H.O. Grand Am (those old Q4s were FUN!!!)...all the Firebirds I sold at the dealership in '02 (34 total, from a dealer that sold ONE in all of '00 and '01)...the '96-'98 AT Mustang GT I dusted with my good ol' 155hp, 2900lb 3100 Grand Am (7.9 second 0-60 on the Grand Am, 7.7 on that GT...I launched well )...the first time I drove my '01 GT away from the dealership, with a big smirk on my face and thought about how awesome the car would look with the 17" chrome 5 spoke ARs I'd already picked out...

Saturn can't touch that. Nor any of the other history Pontiac has. Pontiac needs to be the #2 car division...it deserves to be. I'd venture to say that GM would have more of that ellusive thing called MARKET SHARE if those superior Saturn products were being pedalled at a Pontiac store, of which there are, what, FOUR TIMES as many as there are Saturn stores? In my area, there are TWO Saturn dealers within an hour of my house. While Pontiac is overdealered without a doubt, having 3-4 of the current SIX in that same area wouldn't hurt...

 

This is the modern-day version of catty neighbors, direct to your PC
Is this yet another GM pipe-dream? I am utterly sick of the failed promises.

I don't doubt for one minute that you heard something you deemed credible. But please, I have heard so many promises from GM that are really just false hopes. Right now, the whole situation just seems completely in flux.

 

Sounds great, a possible new product in the next decade. Of course, it'll have to wait until Chevy launches the Volt. Then Caddy's going to want their version out next. And don't forget Saturn. We're looking at almost 10 years before Pontiac gets its turn. Do you see Pontiac surviving 10 years with its current portfolio?

I have a better idea. Give Pontiac a new FWD mid-size sedan. I hear those sell really well, and consumers like tarted up performance models. Take the Malibu, slap on some unique, over the top body panels, and then more importantly, swap in some agressive suspension components (check Saab and Opel's parts bins). Top it off with a direct injected 3.6L V6.

Tada! You have fast mid-size that appeals to a different crowd than the conservative Malibu and refined Aura. It's okay if the car turns off some people for being too brash and harsh- this is a niche brand remember?

There's Pontiac's formula - cheap, fast, exciting.

 

The G6 GXP. It's almost as if they purposely went out of their way to create a loser. What a wasted opportunity.

 

Agreed. That hideous thing is an insult to Pontiac.

 

I know, and it would have taken so little to make it a contender. It really shows you how much Pontiac has been gutted in just the past few years. In 2005 Pontiac still had enough of their own engineering resources to put together the GP GXP and make a legitimate fwd performer out of a 20 year old platform. Now they don't even try.

 

I don't think Pontiac is as bad off as some here believe.

Sure, the division is FAR from where it needs to be, but it has solid product. The Torrent was arguably the best Theta until the new Vue came around, the Vibe just got redesigned and will probably sell well. The Solstice needs nothing written about it, The G5 is a clone, but a solid entry nonetheless. The G8 and possible G8 ST are products that will throw fuel on the fire (Hopefully... If not, we have a problem) and the G6 is about to launch an Epsilon II version that will make it more than competitive for it's class.

 

I agree. I wish I had a dollar for every Pontiac-is-dead post I've read here.

G6 is one og GM's best selling vehicles. The Vibe has just been redone. The G8 is about to hit the streets. Solstice has gotten a lease on life for a next generation. A version of the Alpha is still slated for Pontiac. There's a coupe in the pipeline for Pontiac (though perhaps not what we'd expect). Pontiac is tied with Buick, GMC, and Holden.

Sure, the G8 wagon is dead, but I don't see any doom-and-gloom at Pontiac regarding it's present or future.