Chevy will always be pushed as the volume brand. I doubt that'll ever change. Pontiac could go "youth", might actually be the only chance it would have.

Chevy's got better products then Pontiac right now, Buicks got the "old" man cheap caddy market covered, Caddy is the high end which Pontiac has no chance in hell to compete with.

Where does that leave them? nobody wants RWD anymore save "Luxury". Kids are into FWD small cars (which is gay but they are). Pontiac should go small and designs for the 20-30 (like mentioned above; scion) and they might be able to attract buyers.

I have a 2005 Grand Prix only because the company got it cheap. It drives well and is a great appliance, but is UGLY AS SIN! I HATE the whole pontiac lineup with that ugly *** grill. I don't care how good a car it is nobody will want it. They need to get away from the current front end designs asap or it WILL die. Complete blank sheet and don't even look at the past designs... IMO

 

If Pontiac dies it will be of neglect.

Let them have Zeta, Alpha, and whatever Kappa turns into and you can really have a nice lineup.

 

Life @ Pontiac =

 

Welcome to the idea being kicked around some 2+ years ago, it didn't happen then, I don't think it will happen now.

 

Yeah Josh, I was a proponent of that 2 years ago too - to which everyone around here responded ........" Stop smoking crack a$$hole, because I'm buying that LS7 GTO when it come out".

Or words to that effect....

 

Pontiac (today) is what happens when you mix all your brands into one company.

 

Josh is this true or more crazy persons talk?.

 

Umm, what's crazy persons talk?

 

Paging Jim Wangers!

 

I just don't see how that could happen given the new CAFE standards. The next generation of Holdens are supposed to be lighter, but they'll still be large, powerful cars. There are also other issues. The exchange rate makes it much less of a slam dunk cost wise.

Most importantly though, it's far from clear that Americans really want to buy Holdens. I hope the G8 really does well, but I'm just not sure we're going to see much interest. We were supposed to get a uniquely styled Pontiac vehicle out of the program, according the RLSedition, and that fell through. The G8 is great, as are the other Holdens, but it doesn't strike me as a vehicle that will generate enough excitement to save a brand. Let's hope I'm wrong.

 

IMO Pontiac being performance RWD and CAFE are not exclusive

its all about volume.. Pontiac SHOULD be a LOW VOLUME brand.... and it should be financially set up to be one..

they could have a few models that guzzle gas like no other.. but i think GM will have enough cars in other divisions to make up for it in CAFE

Pontiac should have like 3 models.. maybe 4... kappa car, alpha car, zeta car and different variations of each.. all sold in reletively low volume.. even produced in low volume to the point where there is a waiting list.. it can be done and it wouldnt effect CAFE much..

now.. i dont know if this is financially viable.. but there are plenty of companies out there that sell in low volume and make plenty of profit... i think it could be done with pontiac as well

 

I've reached the pretty much the same conclusions. Turning Pontiac into largely Holden NA sort of solves the product side of things, but CAFE isn't going to be so easy to tackle. But then again, the new requirements don't kick in tomorrow either, there's still time to tackle that issue.

In that vein as well Holden doesn't exactly create all its own vehicle lines - beyond the Commodore range Holden sells rebadged Opels and Daewoos so it's not like there's a whole lot of vehicles there to choose from for use as Pontiacs anyway. Opels here are sold as rebadged Saturns and Daewoos as rebadged Chevrolets. So no, current Holden product won't save Pontiac, if Holden gets Alpha then there's more opportunity for a smaller, lighter RWD vehicle to sell along side the VE/Zeta car or cars - if that even happens, moving forward.

I think and hope that the G8 will do well for Pontiac but I have no doubt that it will be far from being a sales superstar. And if for some reason it becomes one, there's still a limitation on availability anyway since the Holden plant can only turn out so many vehicles that are destined for our shores.

 

I would much rather see Pontiac turn into GM's Mazda then Scion. I don't believe making Pontiac a Holden USA division is the right way. Cherry pick from them, sure. Become them, no.

 

CAFE is going to hit all makers of sporty cars with equal force. GM has enough market share and global presence to be able to deal with the challenges better than some. It's a little doubtful to me though, really how good the new CAFE's chances are of surviving long-term. It's on a collision course with a couple things: (1) longstanding lifestyle and buying habits of American vehicle owners (who haul around a LOT of stuff, like junior soccer teams, firewood, stoves, etc) and (2) political trends which can and likely will turn on a dime, to open up energy alternatives like domestic oil drilling and nuclear energy in the US. Plus, with the US military surge working now in the mideast - I'm cautiously optimistic that we might soon have another large oil-producing friend there. I've lived thru two previous 'fuel shortage crises' in the US - and recall how pessimistic everyone was about cool V8 cars, both in 1973 and in 1979. Now look where we are! Yikes, we are in the 'new golden age' of muscle. Corvette ZR1's... LS2 GTO's... Mustang GT500's... Challenger SRT8... Caddy CTS-V. And more to come.
People seem to overlook, this combination of Pontiac-GMC-Buick is a PLUS in many ways too. My dealer, Sellers Pontiac in Farmington MI, now has all kinds of choices for us when we need a new vehicle. It's a draw to get us in there. Sure we might end up with an Acadia. Or maybe we will like the G8 wagon there. Plus, these combined, large-scale service departments have better access to specialists needed today, like experts certified in electrical diagnosis, and paintless dent repair guys.
I disagree about ANY 'inevitability' in this. Pontiac right now reminds me of that hero gal in Terminator 2, who takes her combat knife and scrawls on a table, "NO FATE". Pontiac will cut its own swath in the jungle, and right now looks to be doing a pretty good job if you ask me. Why haven't you mentioned the G8 ST and wagon? The G8 is an entire family of potential success for Pontiac. It's absurd to cast aside its potential without considering those other variants too. Both can be delivered for very little marginal cost, by leveraging the existing Holden designs and the front clip/interior already in pipeline for the sedan... making for a very compelling business case and profit potential. Where's Buick's comparable products for a G8 ST and wagon?
Pontiac's got a much different situation than say, Oldsmobile did a few years ago. Plus, dumping Olds was a painfully costly move for GM and its dealers. It's apparent that the new strategy is to pull a few brands together at a given dealer and target each brand's vehicles more uniquely, and that seems to be bearing fruit for GM.

I believe the G8 family (sedan, ST, wagon) will be a good niche and will attract quite a few middle-age, family buyers who want a sporty but practical car. It has 'enough' luxury for them, without a Caddy price.

I disagree about the entire lineup of Pontiac being homely. The Solstice is an undeniably gorgeous runaway hit... and the front end of the G8 family is very handsome - yet has a mainstream shape overall. Not many out there dislike this front end....

 

I still like the idea of a performance oriented niche lineup for Pontiac - I don't think it could survive if it was all RWD product though - although it works for BMW; but Pontiac isn't BMW.

I don't think Pontiac necessarily has to be our answer to Scion either to by becoming entry level, youth (as it's currently defined anyway) oriented product. Product can be youthful without being what Scion offers or being entry level.

Youth oriented product has always worked. As they say you can sell an old man a young man's car but you can't sell an old man's car to a young one. Remember that a lot of these "youth oriented"vehicles that are targeted specifically at the younger population have actually, sold better to an older demographic than the one intended.

But does it have to be Toyota's or Honda's definition of youth - 4 (or less) cylinder engines, plastic/rubber washable interiors and milk truck styling? Why can't attractive, attainable, sporty (as in quick and agile), fun to drive and be seen in cars (not necessarily all-out sporty either) work - worked for Pontiac in the 60's - it can be argued that it's working for Mazda right now too I guess. They have it with the Solstice, they need to migrate that to all other product they offer. I think the G8 falls into the above category (at least for me), but time will tell.

The rest of the lineup is not comprised of "bad" cars per se, but yes, something is lacking - too many compromises(?). I dunno.