I saw the one he did on Autoline after Dark, or whatever that's called. Everyone is saying the same thing, but I'm not expecting much change, because I've heard it before. The 370Z was supposed to be a lot lighter. It's not. The new BMW 5 is a couple hundred pounds heavier (what happened to "every generation needs to get lighter?"). The Epsilon IIs are built like bricks (it won't be hard to make their replacements lighter). This is a long-winded way of saying that Talk is Cheap. Or, I'll believe it when I see it (or a credible rumor of it).

So what do you guys think a 450hp Alpha Camaro would weigh?

 

Personally - I'm hoping it will be roughly the same as the 4th Gen V8 F-bodies (i.e. about 3,480-3560 lbs).

 

That would be nice. I'm always willing to be pleasantly surprised.
My 2002 is something like 3504, according to the door sticker, and I still like the way it drives.

 

As a guess, about 3700 lbs for a BMW 3-series sized car.

Given it will accommodate a small block and TTV6, the body would need to be rigid enough to withstand the torsional forces. Therefore, 3450 lbs seems to be a pipe dream (to me).

 

The target for the current one was 3500 pounds for the V8 version. Some even wanted it to be even be a bit under that. But...no one actually thought that target would even be approached.

And very early on, my sources told me that this version would never get under 3800 pounds. I believe I was the one telling all you guys that, and I sure burned up afew flame suits in the process - and still bear the scars.

Was anyone fired over that? Who knows with all the shake ups. But I'll say this. It's one thing to not reach weight targets when you have to recycle an already heavy sedan architecture on the cheap - it's completely another when you are given a clean sheet of paper, a mountain of money, a bunch of resources and half of a decade, to develop something smaller and lighter.

 

Oh and BTW, I'd bet that the next gen Mustang GT comes in around 3500-ish pounds.

 

I agree with the talk is cheap part. I'm cautiously optimistic.

There are ways to reduce weight which don't necessarily require exotic materials or gold plated costs. I know that the next gen Mustang is going through that process as we speak. I'd hope with Reuss at the helm, the same is happening with Alpha.

How much will a 450 hp Alpha Camaro weigh? Don't know for certain - but I'd say a whole bunch less than the 426 hp one.

That's what I'm sort of hoping too.

 

Any good rumors about whether it will have IRS or not?

 

I haven't heard anything definitive one way or another - but I would not even blink an eye to hear the next Mustang is lighter than the current one (by even a pound) while increasing crash safety and incorporating an IRS - but I don't think it is as much of a "fire and brimstone" issue as people once thought. If it'll improve MPG and packaging, they might just stay with the solid axle. The current one works freaking well.

Heck, didn't BMW just publish that like 75% of 1 series owners thought their car was FWD? Most people really don't know or care what the axle is, much less what one version looks like compared to another.

On that note, you could probably convince people a 4th gen Fbody had an "independent rear end" because the rear end was independent from the chassis - and it could move around - thanks to the panhard rod. Versus a solid rear axle like the Corvette has, because that is mounted solidly to the car and it does not move independantly.

 

It's a more than safe bet you'll never see a sra in new gm rwd car again .

 

I was asking about the Mustang. I would not expect a SRA on an Alpha, Beta, Zeta, etc.

 

To my question about IRS on the next Mustang....

Geoff, I've read this a couple of times and I can't quite figure out what you're suggesting. Do you mean that you expect the next Mustang to be lighter, even if it's just one pound, or that you don't? [blinking an eye is more a measure of speed than surprise or expectation in my experience ]

 

If the 6th gen 450hp V8 Camaro ends up at the same weight as a 4th gen, that means that we get 100hp, IRS, half a dozen more airbags, undoubtedly bigger wheels, and all the other modern goodies for no weight gain.

I think that'd be great!

But I also think that's a very aggressive target that will be very difficult to meet. I'd like to understand how people might think this would be accomplished. It seems to me it would take more than just strategic use of aluminum in a few places or sweating the grams on every part.

BMW did the above on the M3 and even with 414/295, which is noticeably less TQ than an LS3, yet it's still at 3704 pounds, depending on equipment. And base model M3s really don't have that many heavy luxury features that aren't in a Camaro 2SS or premium package Mustang GT (they've got a decent options list).

 

I think right now it is too early to say anything for sure. Untill prototypes are on the roads it is all vapor ware. One thing I will say is that outside the Corvette, GM's cars are NEVER the lightest in their catagory except when they get a generation behind. That combined with the brain drain they have had over the last few years makes me skeptical of Alpha the magic platform. Even if they do hit their goals..I can see no way that it would not make the Camaro cost noticably more.

You have to be careful not to expect so much from something that does not exist yet. Otherwise that there is no way you can be happy with it when it becomes reality.