teal98

With direct injection, fuel is injected when it's needed. I understand that there is still more to it, but that's what computers are for. I think wikipedia is outdated with respect to the latest DI gasoline engine technology.

DI is what really enables the turbo in gasoline engines.

SSbaby

I'm not sure that DI has any real bearing on the benefits of turbocharging diesels vs gasoline - it's beside the point. It's more to do with the diesel characteristics - no spark, better lubrication properties of diesel fuel, lower rev range and greater efficiency where the turbo unit itself has less work to do.

Anyway, you would know that American cops are far more gun ho in comparison to Euro cops. American cops aren't afraid to use their cars like battery rams whereas the culture in Europe allows police to operate their cars much like the public -A to B transport. In other words the rigors of the cop car in the USA would be too much for a lot of Euro machinery.

I'm sure the US police have already trialed many forced engines, hence, their underwhelming reaction.

Geoff Chadwick

I've been led to believe the same - I'm betting they'll re-use every single part off the ATS that they can. I heard a few bits from one of the guys I know at Magna that have me excited (not specifically alpha related, more GM attitude related)
AFM really needs an automated transmission to work properly so it can select the exact gear it needs (aka run in 4th gear at higher rpm on 3 cylinders versus 5th gear mid rpm 4 cylinders or 6th gear low rpm 6 cylinders). Selecting gear ratios means using 7+ dimensional charts, and AFM just adds another layer. So does VVT. Whether a DI V6 or LNF got better fuel economy in the same chassis is still unknown though. Our closest crystal ball will be with Epsilon and the Regal/Malibu. Get the popcorn ready, cause its going to be a close one!
DI helps a lot but it still requires a spark plug - the real holy grail is HCCI - you can run some crazy stupid A:F ratios and the spark plug is no longer required once the engine gets to temperature. We've seen and heard about HCCI engines for the better part of a decade - but nothing even close to production - because HCCI is simply brutal on the lightweight internals of a gasoline engine and the emissions out the tailpipe get really wild when you go past a 25:1 ultra-lean-burn cycle.

Also, a lot of the DI work was done with technology from and individuals experienced with modern diesel engines. Bosch is not hurting right now.
In theory, yes. But one of the reasons the diesel engines are so reliable is because they're giant heavy slugs of metal. If you made a gasoline engine that stout, it'd weigh as much as a diesel, and without HCCI it wouldn't be as powerful - So in theory yes, in real life, no. Find me a gasoline V8 - ANY gasoline V8 - that can survive in work trucks like a good Cummins diesel.

This thread is getting good! Lots of tech talk creeping in!

Z284ever

Yeah, I like that!

teal98

You're right. I was thinking of automotive diesels. If there were a market, I believe that you could build a heavy duty turbo gasoline engine as reliable as the diesel, that also revved higher, and thus produced more power. But such an engine would not make sense, as diesel fuel has more energy in it, and revs cost even more money.

I think the main problem with any unit body car for police duty is that repairs will be more expensive. With FWD, there are a lot of expensive parts up front, relatively unprotected too. If you hit the curb too hard in a Taurus, it seems to me the repair bill could be much much more than it would be in a Crown Vic. But then a Charger or Commodore likely would also be more expensive than a Crown Vic -- but probably not as much as a Taurus, on average.

Z284ever

So, you don't see much of a future for HCCI in the near term?

Geoff Chadwick

I was reading one of the more recent issues of Automotive Engineering and there was a quarter page blurb about some tech company that had developed a way to ignite the fuel/air mix without a spark plug... basically describing HCCI. Not new. One of the reasons I stopped my subscription to the magazine is that it just doesn't keep up with technology like it should and I was honestly wasting time reading it.
Honda had a running prototype 5 years ago, but we really don't hear anything the technology a full 5 years later. In theory, the system should be cheaper and simpler than a hybrid and net similar (or better) efficiency gains. All the big auto companies pumped millions into the technology - but no visible results to anyone on the outside. I think this is due to a combination of the limit of a realistic ECU at the time and automotive companies kinda saving the technology for a "rainy day" to appease the political machine only when necessary. Give em an inch, they'll take a mile.

Do I see a future? Of course. With CAFE looming around the corner, It has GOT to be on the radar. I'd wager it'll finally start seeing use in production vehicles come 2014 or 2015.

There was a GM/Stanford/Bosch effort worth $2.5 million done back in 05 as well. I can't find any links to results of that research though.

formula79

On a side note..I was at Camaro5Fest this weekend, and it was by far the largest Camaro show I have been too. The vendor and enthusiast support was a amazing. Though I know some will never agree..but after experiancing that, it is IMPOSSIBLE to label the current car anything but a resounding previously unimaginable success. Remember..the goal of the car business is to sell what people want...and GM has nailed that for enough people with the current car, that they deserve credit.

Big Als Z

Geoff GM had a running test car using HCCI, I believe at the time the only car that had the technology if only at idle and low RPM. It was a Saturn Aura. GM put it on display along side a moddified Gen IV with direct injection in an Escalade.