Automotive News / Industry / Future Vehicle Discussion Automotive news and discussion about upcoming vehicles

GM Update

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 09:10 AM
  #1  
cjmatt's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 983
From: Motor City
GM Update

GM is in the process of reworking their global RWD implementation strategy. Recently published quotes, mostly from Bob Lutz, 'suggest' that GM may cancel several of their RWD programs due to potential future fuel economy regulations. The large scale trimming of their RWD plans does not appear to be happening, but significant changes to the execution of those plans are occurring. However, these changes do not seem to be driven by upcoming F/E changes, but rather by GM's need to manage and reduce product variable cost. Platform and product changes are as follows: Sigma (Global Luxury RWD) – End of Production 2012 The Sigma platform, used exclusively for the Cadillac CTS, STS and SRX, will be phased out over the next 4 years. As part of this platform ramp down, the SRX will end production in mid-2009 and the STS will be dropped in mid-2010. To help maintain acceptable levels of volume on this platform and to help keep some of the SRX customers in the brand, Cadillac is moving forward with plans to add hardtop convertible and wagon bodystyles to the CTS for the 2010MY. The CTS will migrate to the Zeta platform in late 2012 as a 2013MY. Finally, the ULS Ultra Luxury Sedan program, targeted to be a very high-end and expensive flagship for Cadillac, has been cancelled.

Zeta (Global RWD)
As previously forecast, the Chevrolet Camaro (Q1 of 2009) and Impala (Q4 of 2009) will be the first NA-produced Zeta products and they will be joined by the Cadillac DTS (Q4 of 2010) and Buick Flagship Sedan Lucerne replacement (Q1 of 2011). The DTS will, in effect, replace both the outgoing, FWD-based DTS as well as the STS. The Chevrolet Chevelle coupe, originally planned to replace the Monte Carlo in the 2011MY, has been cancelled due to GM's concerns about having two Chevy entries in the large coupe segment. The Pontiac G8, introduced at the Chicago Auto Show, will first be imported from Australia, but could potentially be produced in NA as early as 2010. The GTO will also be imported from Australia beginning Q4 of 2009. Finally, the Cadillac CTS migrates to Zeta in 2011. With this move, it is likely the CTS will grow in size, from its current CD+ size to a more "pure" D size. The Zeta platform is reportedly less costly than the Sigma platform, significantly improving CTS and DTS cost base. The Holden Commodore, Statesman and Ute (Australia), Daewoo L4X (South Korea), Buick Park Avenue (China) and Chevrolet Omega (South America) will continue on the Zeta platform, as well.

Alpha (Global Small RWD)
A new RWD platform has emerged from the offices of GM's product planners. Alpha is reportedly loosely based on the Kappa architecture, though it is significantly larger in size. The Cadillac BLS, currently offered in Europe as an Epsilon platform, FWD-based sedan and wagon, will migrate to Alpha in early 2011 (for both NA and Europe). It had previously been scheduled to move to the Epsilon 2 FWD/AWD platform. However, with the upsizing of the CTS (with its move to Zeta), there was an opportunity in Cadillac's portfolio for a CD-sized RWD sedan. BLS will also be offered in coupe/convertible as well as wagon variants. The Cadillac BRX crossover, scheduled to launch in early 2009 on the Theta platform, will move to Alpha for the 2014MY. This will provided a RWD replacement for the SRX, albeit several years later. The Pontiac G6 will move to Alpha in 2013 after one relative short cycle on the Epsilon 2 platform (due in Q4 of 2009). Pontiac has expressed a strong desire to migrate most of their products to RWD based.

Kappa (Global Compact RWD Performance)
Kappa will continue to underpin GM's performance roadster lineup that includes the Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky, Opel GT and Daewoo G2X.

Last edited by cjmatt; Apr 30, 2007 at 10:59 AM.
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 09:19 AM
  #2  
91_z28_4me's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,600
From: Pewee Valley, KY
Originally Posted by cjmatt
The CTS will migrate to the Zeta platform in late 2012 as a 2013MY.

Finally, the Cadillac CTS migrates to Zeta in 2011.
Discrepancy.

What is the source for this BTW?

Last edited by 91_z28_4me; Apr 30, 2007 at 09:22 AM.
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 09:28 AM
  #3  
cjmatt's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 983
From: Motor City
haha i didnt notice that, The picture from the article shows it going late 2012, im guessing the second is a typo. Sorry, but i can't reveal my source, so take it with a grain of salt, but its usually pretty accurate
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 09:39 AM
  #4  
91_z28_4me's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,600
From: Pewee Valley, KY
Originally Posted by cjmatt
haha i didnt notice that, The picture from the article shows it going late 2012, im guessing the second is a typo. Sorry, but i can't reveal my source, so take it with a grain of salt, but its usually pretty accurate
So it is a person. I thought it was an article w/ wierd spacing.
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 10:37 AM
  #5  
JakeRobb's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,507
From: Okemos, MI
Thanks for the info.
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 11:41 AM
  #6  
Z28x's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by cjmatt
The Cadillac BRX crossover, scheduled to launch in early 2009 on the Theta platform, will move to Alpha for the 2014MY.
Something doesn't seem right here. 5 years is basically an entire generation. Wasn't the BRX going to be at one of the 2006 auto shows originally before it got pushed back?
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 11:43 AM
  #7  
Josh452's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,496
From: Roseville, MI, USA
Originally Posted by Z28x
Something doesn't seem right here. 5 years is basically an entire generation. Wasn't the BRX going to be at one of the 2006 auto shows originally before it got pushed back?
Thus, his news seems to be right. Debuts in 2009, then moves to Alpha in 2014.
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 11:57 AM
  #8  
Z28x's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by Josh452
Thus, his news seems to be right. Debuts in 2009, then moves to Alpha in 2014.
Oopps I read it wrong. For some reason I thought they were waiting for Alpha and skipping Theta (2.0?). That makes sense.
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 12:24 PM
  #9  
guionM's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
You nailed Zeta on Holden's side and Pontiac's plans.

Outside of that, Sigma's writing is on the wall but I wouldn't expect the next CTS to grow in size beyond the 2008 model. Zeta is a cheaper and better structure than Sigma, so it's essentially an open & shut case to move it to Cadillac.

In addition to the Camaro & Impala, I'd also expect the El Camino here during the 2009CY, making it a really fun time to be a Chevrolet enthusiast.

I haven't seriously believed Chevrolet would have a large coupe since it began looking very likely Holden would be making the Monaro replacemnt in Australia instead of in North America (last fall). The whole basis of building the large coupes here in NA was that Chevrolet's volume would make it worthwhile. While I can easily see Chevrolet importing a version as a Chevrolet "GTO" (it's going to be sold in the Middle East as a Chevy anyway), I don't see 35-45,000 G8s and another 12-15,000 GTOs and another 150-160,000 Holdens for local and world distribution leaving much room for another 15-20,000 Chevy coupes. I'll be the 1st to admit it's possible (to fill out capacity), but I wouldn't bet my beer money on it at the moment.



I'm out of the loop on recent developments on the small RWD chassis (been preoccupied). Can tell you the basic premise is to create a new versitile architecture to bolt the Solstice's IRS, front suspension, and drivetrain to (it's NOT a revised Kappa).

The Torana concept was an offshoot of a competition between GM North America and GM Holden to create the structure (NA's version won BTW... Torana's starting point was Zeta). But the size of the Torana is what we're looking at. Pontiac, Holden, Opel (including Saturn), and Cadillac will have models based on this architecture, and the early leading candidate to build them is Wilmington (lots of things can change between now & then, though).

This small chassis will be the basis for sedans and a coupes. It initially started out as a '4 cylinder only' structure, last heard was the idea was changed to accept V6s. GM-Holden sees the chassis as a volume sucessor to the VE. GM-North America sees it as the next performance car chassis.

This is being eyed as a G6 successor. Unless Camaro sales simply flat-out take off (meaning approaching 200K annually) and the coupe market explodes, common wisdom is this is probally the only chance of seeing the Firebird return.

Last edited by guionM; Apr 30, 2007 at 12:32 PM.
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 12:31 PM
  #10  
Chrome383Z's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
With the Truck market looking poor, maybe we will see a boom in the large coupe market... who knows.
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 12:38 PM
  #11  
JakeRobb's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,507
From: Okemos, MI
Originally Posted by guionM
this is probably the only chance of seeing the Firebird return.
Uh oh. How long until that can of worms starts being repeated as fact, just because you speculated about it here?
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 01:10 PM
  #12  
Z28x's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by Chrome383Z
With the Truck market looking poor, maybe we will see a boom in the large coupe market... who knows.
I doubt it for coupes, but I could see RWD sedans coming back in style.
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 01:13 PM
  #13  
km9v's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,296
From: Beaumont, TX
El Camino?
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 01:49 PM
  #14  
FUTURE_OF_GM's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 632
From: NC
Zeta (Global RWD)
The DTS will, in effect, replace both the outgoing, FWD-based DTS as well as the STS.
So will elements of the "Ultra Cadillac" be integrated into this or is it still a different project or is it dead for good yet again?

The Chevrolet Chevelle coupe, originally planned to replace the Monte Carlo in the 2011MY, has been cancelled due to GM's concerns about having two Chevy entries in the large coupe segment.
That's sad... But I can definitely see their point.

The Pontiac G8, introduced at the Chicago Auto Show, will first be imported from Australia, but could potentially be produced in NA as early as 2010. The GTO will also be imported from Australia beginning Q4 of 2009.
Hopefully the GTO will be more aggressive than the G8 instead of just a 2 door G8.

Finally, the Cadillac CTS migrates to Zeta in 2011. With this move, it is likely the CTS will grow in size, from its current CD+ size to a more "pure" D size.
My concern with that is; will GM have the same problem with the CTS/DTS in the future as they have with the CTS/STS now. (Basically the same car with drastically different prices and different names) I certainly hope not, we don't need competing cars in the same division.

The Zeta platform is reportedly less costly than the Sigma platform, significantly improving CTS and DTS cost base.
Hopefully Zeta is as good as Sigma (Which I'm sure it is since it's Sigma derived, if I'm not mistaken) We all saw the writing on the wall, but it's still a bit sad that Cadillac doesn't get an exclusive platform anymore. It seems like GM's aspirations for Cadillac are not what they were even 3 years ago, which is not a good thing. I really want to see them become the 'Standard of the World' again.

A new RWD platform has emerged from the offices of GM's product planners. Alpha is reportedly loosely based on the Kappa architecture, though it is significantly larger in size. The Cadillac BLS, currently offered in Europe as an Epsilon platform, FWD-based sedan and wagon, will migrate to Alpha in early 2011 (for both NA and Europe). It had previously been scheduled to move to the Epsilon 2 FWD/AWD platform. However, with the upsizing of the CTS (with its move to Zeta), there was an opportunity in Cadillac's portfolio for a CD-sized RWD sedan. BLS will also be offered in coupe/convertible as well as wagon variants.
All excellent news, as long as the price point isn't so low it competes with Pontiac.

This will provided a RWD replacement for the SRX, albeit several years later. The Pontiac G6 will move to Alpha in 2013 after one relative short cycle on the Epsilon 2 platform (due in Q4 of 2009). Pontiac has expressed a strong desire to migrate most of their products to RWD based.
This is the part that scares me... Cadillac needs something to replace and build on the sales of the SRX. Hopefully the CTS wagon will do the trick, but I'm not so sure. And, that's a LONG time to wait for a RWD G6. I just hope Pontiac can sustain itself for that long.

Lets hope GM doesn't let Kappa and Y-Body wither either.
Old Apr 30, 2007 | 01:57 PM
  #15  
FUTURE_OF_GM's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 632
From: NC
This is being eyed as a G6 successor. Unless Camaro sales simply flat-out take off (meaning approaching 200K annually) and the coupe market explodes, common wisdom is this is probally the only chance of seeing the Firebird return.
But then what would be the point of having the Solstice? I could be way off base here, but it seems that Alpha will be roughly the same size as Kappa and there were whispers of a Solstice coupe joining the convertible. Something tells me that a Solstice line and a Firebird line couldn't co-exist at Pontiac... Unless the Firebird became basically a G6 coupe a la G8/GTO rumors, which would differentiate it from Solstice. But I don't see that going over too well.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:45 AM.