Hell, the Colorado was a joke all along in my opinion. They should have kept the S10 size, improved mileage, cost...

All they did was make a slightly larger truck, that didn't make any sense to buy when a Silverado was a better deal.

 

Having been here since 00ish? I was here when I was 17 and BEFORE I even owned a camaro or knew they were going to be canceled.

It feels great the level of excitement, Muscle cars have alway brought that on to me Especially GM Performance machines

Maybe it's because I pay more attention to GM then any other brand, but to me, it seems that the camaro introduction and almost every other vehicle take nearly a decade to produce! We get teaser pictures and little info, in the mean time Mustang is rolling and moving into a new update.

I agree, some of the best machines ever are right here, right now G8 GXP Would be in my driveway next to the CTSV, Corvette C6, and Avalanche/ Tahoe and Impala SS. You cant go wrong, however I see the lineup as largely performance so it's going to take vehicles like the new Malibu and other more average vehicles to shape the image.

 

First of all - don't pine for GM alone. I know it's a GM-based board, but they are all intertwined these days... what happens to one affects them all.
ALL of the US carmakers are hurting... have been for a long time.

Next - I recall some wise-guy on this board about 4 years ago making claims that "in 5 years or less, China would change the game of economics as we know it, and the USA would no longer be the dominant superpower on earth - economically or militarilly". Some agreed, and some fought hard against the suggestion that we needed to "buy American". Well, as sales of Toyotas and Hondas reach record levels... and Chinese makers are not even up to speed yet... well, look at the topic of the thread... you see what happened.

I have doled-out my share of accolades for things done right - no doubt that Cadillac has done a wonderful turn-around in the last few years. Exemplary job by their product manager and absolutely spot-on job in hitiing (and even creating) a niche market with the right product at the right time. There is no reason why Caddy and the line of products won't prevail over this downturn.

I have also tried to demonstrate that fads and trends are NOT the places to invest, but GM seemed to be searching for the "next big thing" in the wrong places. The Aztek is a good example. The vehicle itself really was not a bad ride. The focus groups and marketing research that was done for it was just skewed towards those who wanted something different. No crime in that either, but obviously the public at-large did not have the same feelings as those in the focus groups. The SSR - another niche.
And while we are at it - let's go ahead and blow the soot out on the GTO...
I literally CROWED about the car and it's capabilities, but I was also the loudest advocate for NOT naming it the GTO - I felt that was a marketing faux-pas that would bite them in the @ss. Well, we now know what history wrote for the books. While the cars performance was stellar, the hype and confusion over the "return of the legend" was a bubble that busted IMO, resulting in a lackluster image for GM on what should have been a GREAT model. I've never said anything on this board because it's not my style to rub salt in a wound, but I wonder how well the car would have sold if it was introduced as "the G8" (or the Monaro - I LOVE the name "Monaro") in the first place and started making it's own rep from scratch.

Which begs another point they ALL are guilty of recently... name pimping.
While I think it's fine to use the equity in a model that you own/control to sell cars, I also think that the name should live up to it's predecessor's reputation if it's going to be used. What Ford did to the Taurus, what GM did to the Malibu, throwing out "GT" and "SS" on everything, etc... it wears thin on folks who expect these models to resemble what they knew from years earlier. Whether justified or not, if those folks are lured into a showroom because of a name they heard, anly to find a whimpy, cheap offering wearing a legendary badge on the fender, they walk out disappointed, and will likely not come back. This HAS happened... I've talked to folks who have said it to me.

Another thought for this post - I keep preaching about the content of cars today, all the crap on them that folks may NOT want, etc. THIS IS HUGE TO ME. I fear that Ford is screwing-up bad with the Mustang, Fusion, and Focus, and I hope the new units (like Fiesta) will get back to roots. Mustang NEVER sold well because it was loaded with content - it was never meant to. Certainly there were lots of features and options - you could choose from almost 20 colors in the first few years - but the CAR was very basic.
IMO, the market for most vehicles today is broken into 3 main categories as follows...
1) Working - these are trucks, vans, and job/working vehicles.
2) Family - these are the 5-7 seaters that go on trips, haul the family to dinner and shopping, etc.
3) Basic - these are vehicles that take you to work every day, run errands, groceries, and generally knock-around in by yourself or with 1 companion.
The first two categories should be obvious to us all as ones that should tout their capabilities, towing capacity, seating capacity, how many cup holders they have, how many DVD's are in the rear, Nav systems, etc. The 3rd category however, is becoming something totally undesireable to many - me included.

I would plop-down my cash in an instant for the right car for me to do my commuting, errands, and joy-riding in. I want a stripped-down, basic car (preferably with a V8 option) - and THAT'S IT. I'm in my car for 9 minutes while I drive 7 miles to work - WTF do I need/want a nav system, heated seats, and tire-pressure sensors for?!?! I don't need it, don't want it, and WON'T BUY IT... PERIOD.

I just looked at a 92 Mustang earlier this week... it's a 4-banger, 5-spd. Airbag on the wheel (not optional). AM/FM/cassette, manual windows, manual remote morrors, PDLs. THAT'S IT. This car is "transportation" at it's best IMO - perfect for running to work, to town for lunch, to teh bank, out for a gallon of milk, etc. It's cheap, economical, and decently fun to drive.
It's almost a twin to the one I drove to go look at it - a 93 4-cyl/5-spd coupe that has PW, PL, and factory AM/FM/CD. I have folks after me to sell them my car, or find them one like it all the time. One guy in Maintenance here at my plant asks me every week to sell him mine - no joke. My father-out-law is after me to get him one like mine now (why I was looking at the 92 in fact) for commuting because of my demonstrated 35+mpg and "fun-factor".

So I go back to why/how these little fox-body Mustangs sold so well, why there are so many without PWs, PDLs, CD players, etc. and why I see so many still on the roads today... and here you have it. They were good, basic, fun, economical cars with decent styling, and a possible V8 if you wanted. MAN, do I want Ford to go back to that recipe for the Mustang.

Likewise, I think GM, Chrysler, and Ford ALL need to concentrate on basic transportation immediately. I'm not talking Smart cars or Yaris'... I'm talking ponycars. There are LOTS of folks without jobs or with low-paying jobs that would still drop $10k-15k on a good basic unit that looks "cool"- IF one was available. Know who has one on the lot for under $9000USD?
Kia.

So for me - it's like a trail of tears in beers. We have allowed the big-3 to make some GREAT stuff we want, but not what we NEED, and in many ways we are still going down that path.... more junk, bigger sizes, heavier, and faster. The same mentality that allows so many folks to live on credit cards and live a lifestyle they can't afford has also led them to buy cars with so much junk in them that is not needed or useable.
We need to get "back to basics" IMO, and d@mn soon too. They will sell alot more units at $10-20k for folks to go to work in and "live" with than they will $50-60K units with friggin heated seats, nav systems, and on-star - I guarantee it.

As for GM.. I said 5 months ago that I was scared - REAL scared.
Now, I am moreso.

 

amen.

 

This has a lot to do with it ...clearly their overall consistency is severly lacking. But I will say they have improved in recently years: it used to be GM took 2 steps back for every 1 step forward; now they're only taking 1 step back for every 1 forward. Problem is companies like Toyota still have a better ratio even when they're not perfect all the time.

I've been a GM guy my whole life, and like Silverado C-10's dad, a Pontiac guy in particular (I've owned 4 Pontiacs; 1 Chevy (Z28); 1 Buick; 1 Olds; 1 Caddy; one Nissan). So I'm not liking where Pontiac is going. But for those that fear this is the end of the General and all the cars/nameplates we love, it certainly isn't. Worst case, if GM does go bankrupt and can't reorganize into profitability, most of its assets will be sold off to someone. We might find Chevrolet is a division of Toyota or something similar, but we'll still be able to buy a "GM" car, and probably one largely designed by the same people as today. GM is not just going to completely close up shop and throw everything in the dumpster.

 

The problem is 8 years when they could have done something to avoid this problem, I'll bet none of the Detroit Three would have ever believed this day would come. They would have continued down the path of keeping the status quo because it was making them boat loads of money.

You almost have to credit Ford for having some foresight several months back to begin selling divisions off while they still had some value.

I agree with what everyone else is saying. Even if just GM goes bankrupt, the impact will effect the entire US Auto Industry and the entire network (manufacturers, suppliers, dealers, etc) could end up collapsing. While I am overjoyed Camaro is back, I'm nervous about laying down a deposit to a dealer who may go bankrupt for a car manufactured by a company that may go bankrupt. Sure, I guess I'd eventually recover, but why put myself through the heartache?

It sucks to be an auto enthusiast these days.

 

I agree with what everyone's said thus far for the most part. I've been coming here for almost 10 years now, and I feel its almost surreal how far the Big 3 have fallen.

If GM had been a little more proactive and realistic with the problems they were facing 10 years ago, I wonder if it they could have avoided this. The more I think about it, I'm starting to believe that it would have taken a truly extraordinary leader or leaders to pull this company out of this nose dive.

 

That is exactly right, and as good as cars like the CTS and Tahoe are, most people don't buy $40,000 vehicles. GM is losing the first time buyer by not focusing on the lower end and fuel efficient models. I know people that owned Cavilers and because of their experience with that car will never buy another GM vehicle again. So then on their second vehicle they buy a larger more expensive Honda or Toyota and love it (compared to what they came from) and are hooked on the brand, or at the very least will give them a first shot at repeat business.

This should not happen, this is the reason GM is where it is today. It isn't enough to make a Malibu that is #1 if these cars are going to be at the bottom of the list.

 

As much as I try to follow the automotive world and everything that happens, I have to say everything is so up in the air right now, it's difficult to even really follow with an certainty.

It gets so frustrating to try to understand why some things are done, that there are times I almost lose interest... I even went into a lurker mode here for an extended period of time because of it.

I guess I've tried to take a step back and just watch what happens and enjoy the comments of everyone that have been here for so long with me and see what unfolds... it's just hard to back away from something that you actually care about.

 

x2. But I think that we're a minority. There are people who feel that they can't possibly live with a car unless it's got every bell & whistle ever conceived by man. Look at the people who complained about GTO not being available with a sunroof, nav, & Onstar! Some actually said they wouldn't buy it because of that! Now these same people are saying similar things about the G8. Well, that's their choice & I suppose that they did need to be offered as options, but if they were you would've had to order 1 to be able to get 1 without all of that stuff on it as dealerships always order loaded up cars as those sell alot easier than unloaded cars do. As I said, we're a minority.

 

Yes....we are certainly the minority, and unfortunately, GM must cater to the majority in order to sell cars (whether or not they are doing it can obviously be argued).

 

I think i'm going to get a head start on a $2,000 Human Powered concept car I have and get rolling with it. Fred Flinstone style...

Definetely sucks right now that's for sure. It basically boils down to greed. And we are all to blame. GM was greedy, the Banks were greedy, the American PEOPLE were greedy.

Now we're paying for it.

 

I think the middle of the road .... $25-35K units with heated seats, nav systems and on-star would be the sweet spot .... and leave room for profit for the manufacturers. If you lived where we live, heated seats are a no-brainer. I thought we needed them because of leather, but my cloth seat Silverado has proved otherwise.

My wife and I are disappointed that the new Camaro doesn't offer a memory power driver seat, a full power passenger seat and dual zone (automatic) climate control. Kudos to Ford for making it available on the 2010 Mustang. Now if it only had IRS and an LS* motor.

As a pony car point of interest, 15 enthusiasts were part of the focus group, 7 have ordered .... every one is a 2SS/RS.

 

The vehicles I mentioned all offer outstanding roadholding and performance value. To do that at a good price, is indeed cutting edge. The Cobalt SS for example, can put a lot of more expensive cars to shame... despite what I'm sure you'd consider Neanderthal FWD

BTW the new Camaro shouldn't even be compared with the Mustang any more. It's going to utterly dominate it from a performance standpoint. So don't bother mentioning the two in the same sentence.

Also BTW, the only car I listed which can be bought with an A4 trans is the Cobalt. Guess almighty Toyota didn't get the memo on A4's... that's still the auto trans in all new Corollas too.
Follow Rick Wagoner's advice and go test drive a new Malibu. It's a volume seller, and is a runaway hit for GM.

 

I think the Cruze will put a nice dent in that list. If it ever gets here.