LS6 might make 400rwhp with a cam, but an LS1? Read what post?

 

I'm going to provide you with some perspective, and hang with the "cam only" trend, although many of these cars have supporting mods, they have no cylinder head mods - which is where the truly big power is found in an LSx:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...highlight=g5x4

I left forced induction off because there has never been a stock forced induction LSx car. BUT... if you would like to talk about forced induction cars, here ya go:

http://www.blackls1ta.com/boosted_list.htm

That would be Harlan's car running the 8.52 @ 168.8mph... and that's LAST YEAR's list.

Here's the old overall list, it's a bit out of date...

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/etdb.php


Stage 1 Heads: Light port work (mostly a polish and deburr), stock valve sizes. May or may not be decked.

Stage 2 Heads: Heavy port work, larger than stock valves. Usually decked unless the variant comes off of the 5.3 liter motor instead of the 6.0 or 5.7 liter motors.

 

There's nothing to read there.
All you tried to do is topspin volley it back into my side of the court.
I know what a G5X4/T-rex will do...and IMO it's not going to make 400rwhp with just tuning on an otherwise stock car.
Your clue should be the convertors and gears listed in the "Fastest Cam Only" thread.
This is a 430rwhp Z06 (LS6) with a G5X4, LT's and tuning. That's just what he's listed...might be more there.
This is another Z06 with X-pipe, Vararam and cutouts. And, of course, LS6 heads. 415rwhp.
This car has full exhaust, LS6 intake, pulley, TB, etc....made 413rwhp.

So again...I know what a cammed LS1 will make and run, and it needs the supporting hardware (exhaust, intake, definitely gears/convertor). On the street, I'd imagine they're dogs under 4-5k.
You said "been there, done that", you have a cam and tune only LS1 making 400rwhp?
BTW...what's a Stage I or II LS1?
S.

 

No, I have a Stage II LS1 in a Camaro SS. Last dyno was 447 rwhp on a Mustang dyno, car has sat for a while as I have been concentrating on my bike. Well, more like a long time since I tore the engine apart again to go to a monster cam, bought the bike, and then haven't put it back together. The bike's faster, and always will be so I kinda lost interest... but not before beating more than my share of BPU Supras into submission.

Hey, and maybe I'm wrong re: cam and tune only. I swear it's been done, but I may have misread. Until I dig it back up, and prove it one way or another, I will cede the point to you.

 

We all know about "staged" setups, like the MTI or GTP stage 1, 2, 3 heads.

 

...and many of them are gutted out with lots of gear and loose-*** convertors that will be hideous on the street.
Ooookay. A heavily modded, turbo LS1.
There are single power-adder 4.6's in the 7's. My point is that LS1's aren't the only vehicle out there that responds to mods.
I thought we were talking about how "cam only" cars were mopping up BPU Supras. Now you're talking about Stage I and Stage II heads. Which is it...cam-only, or full-boat H/C cars against BPU Supras?

I'm familiar with the H/C packages. And a strong H/C car will make ~425rwhp (or more) these days. A Supra would definitely need more than BPU in most cases.
S.

 

Cool.
I doubt a basic BPU TT Supra will hang with a good running H/C LS1.
S.

 

[QUOTE=Snorman]...and many of them are gutted out with lots of gear and loose-*** convertors that will be hideous on the street.

And many of them aren't. That's the point.

How many of them weigh 3350lbs.?


They're not. They just happen to be the best for it in my opinion, and only up to a certain point where the small block Chevrolet takes over by allowing monstrous nitrous shots or insane boost because of the 5-bolt pattern heads.


Well, I though we were talking heads and cam, and pointed out that cam-only cars can do the same thing pretty easily to emphasize the point.

There has never been any doubt that a Stage 2 LSx will mop the floor with a BPU Supra.

 

That's raceweight, which undoubtedly includes the driver. Many of those cars are under 3,000lb. raceweight. I'd bet almost (maybe not all) of those cars have rather substantial weight reduction.

I would agree with that.
But there is more to modding a Supra than BPU. BPU is just that...Basic Performance Upgrage, simply exhaust and a boost controller. What you'd spend on a tuned H/C package for an LS1 you could buy a single turbo conversion for a Supra and make silly hp.
S.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Harlan's car certainly was certainly not stripped out last time I saw it.

Uhhh... you can do a single turbo conversion for $2300?

http://www.texas-speed.com/item_deta...ProductID=1225

A dyno tune usually goes for under $500.

 

This is one example I could find, it's the Thunder Racing T-Rex cam, and although the car was equipped with LT headers and a ported stock throttle body it had nothing else of real significance, it made 451 RWHP with stock heads....

http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...id=88&pcid=122

Scroll down to the T-Rex cam, there's the dyno sheet. I'm guessing if you kept the stock throttle body and exhaust manifolds you'd still be right around 400 RWHP, hard to tell though. Remember the LS6 intake came standard on '01-'02 cars, this dyno was on a '99.

 

You know, there's something about ugly cars that just turn me off no matter how fast they are... and how fast is one of these things gonna be when 2-Phat Jethro gets his pimpin sweet-azz 22" chromies on da fleebies and 21" boom-booms in da trunk, yo true dat wit yo sweet pimpin' chromie grill, ****.


"You can stick a diamond up a goat's ***, but the goat still smells like sh*t."

 

C'mon...the note on the dyno graph clearly states the following...
It states "including", which means there is very likely more than just what they listed. Figure that car has a mid-pipe and catback. "Full package of bolt-on parts", states it very clearly.
S.

 

Um, who said anything about a mod war? I simply suggested that the extra cash in my pocket from the $3K price difference might close whatever performance gap you perceive between the two vehicles.

Um, dude, the $3000 number came from a previous post of yours. Nice try at turning it back around on me, though.

The W5A580 is essentially the same transmission that is used behind the Mercedes/AMG twin-turbo V12s. It's an amazingly strong transmission. Get back to me when the 4L60E is put behind a 738 lb-ft engine and offered with a factory warranty.

Sure, 4L60Es and 700R4s are used in some damn fast cars (it's put some Impalas into the 11s and at least one into the low 10s). But ask people how long it lasts at those sort of power levels. In fact, why don't you ask GM why it never has seen use behind the LS6 or LT4? Trust me - the CTS-V isn't lacking an automatic option simply because GM thinks that slushboxes are for wimps.

BTW, before talking up the LS1/2/6 too much, you may wish to read David Vizard's assessment of the Hemi heads. They're not dog crap, to say the least. I also find it funny that you're picking on the difficulty of hacking the Hemi PCM, considering how long it took for the aftermarket to crack the GM Flash PCMs. Trust me - there's a lot of folks running around the Detroit area with the software required to program DCX modules. Some of us get to play with fun stuff at work. It's only a matter of time before a sufficiently-motivated individual does something productive with it (which is the same way that the GM computers have been hacked, and is how a number of third-party scan tools have been developed).

 

Um, dude, you missed the point. I was pointing out that $3000 is an amount of money that tilts the field into the Cadillac's favor in that the car is so clearly superior (in my opinion) in performance, safety, quality, value and features that the amount of money involved should not be enough to sway the decision.

Then, you came back with taking the $3000 and modding the car. Well... OK... if we're talking about voiding a powertrain warranty, the gloves are off and now you're into a mod war with an LSx based engine... which, given the current state of the competition, usually means you'll lose.


They shouldn't be. From what I've read and understand, they're basically a knock-off of the LSx heads with the valves turned 90 degrees.

Something comes to mind about imitation being the greatest form of flattery or some such nonsense.

Now, if DCX could figure out how to make an aluminum engine block to go with those outstanding General Motors designed cylinder heads, they might really be on to something.


Welp, I wish them the best of luck since it will in the end benefit us all.

In early 2001, I was well aware of many folks tuning LS1's via software. That about... oh... 3-4 years after the launch of the motor, depending on application (Corvette & F-car). It should be fairly easy to compare progress between the two.