That $3K will pay for some sticky tires and a lot of track time. Then we'll see who comes out ahead.

Does the CTS-V come with an automatic? Not everyone wants a manual. Frankly, I'm not that picky. I put a T56 into the Impala mainly because I didn't want to become too familiar with rebuilding the 4L60E. The W5A580 in the SRT-8 is, shall we say, a bit more robust.

I think both are great cars, and I don't see a reason to throw insults at either one. I'd enjoy using either one to embarass Porsche drivers. If there's a desire to pick on someone, how about Ford for blowing it with the Lincoln LS V8? They had a nice head-start in this segment and pissed it away.

 

Everyone say that the CTS-V is a better car inside and out, but I think you guys need to go to the dealers and look at them. There are a coupe that have on here and they say that a 300C is has a better interior and fit and finish then the CTS does, I doubt that will change with the top of the line cars.

I for the record just wish Chrysler would put a manual option in the 300C and SRT-8 and be done with it. I think what is important is that Chrysler and Cadillac both destroy any car in the 40-50k price range. I'm not sure about handling, but I doubt a any 4dr sedans can touch them.

 

Better yet, let's make the number $10,000 and see who comes out ahead.

Getting into a mod-war with an LSx variant is a good way to get hammered... didn't all those uber-cheap +400rwhp LS1 F-cars prove that?

Remember when BPU Supras were a big deal? The LSx pretty much laid them to rest for eternity.

Cripes, LS1's are a cam away from 400rwhp nowadays... the LS2 has a pretty tiny little cam in it for it's displacement... I'm awaiting further developments from the aftermarket, but we've got another monster of a motor on our hands with just a little bit of tweakage.

But... we're talking stock for stock, and since the current transaction price for a CTS-V, which comes loaded, and a loaded SRT-8 are virtually identical, I'm guessing you don't get the option of having the $3000... or it's far less than most think it is.



Very true. It's personal preference. Just pointing out that an automatic in a performance car is a non-starter for me. Won't buy one.


Ummmm.... Is there some data out there that I'm not aware of that indicates a 4L60E is having reliability problems that the DCX transmission does not have? I've seen some darned fast 4L60E cars in my time.

 

I've driven a 300C and a CTS-V. The Cadillac is put together better.

Now, that comes from two places:

1) I am admittedly an unabashed fan of Cadillac.

2) What I look for in a "well put together" car is probably different than what most other folks do. I'm coming from a different perspective since I have dimensional management background.

 

Frankly, I would guess only a small percentage of SRT-8 buyers would even opt for a manual transmission if it were available.
Conversely, one has to wonder if Cadillac has sacrificed sales because there is no automatic paired to the LS1 in the CTS-V.

LS1's don't particularly respond any better to mods than many other engine/platforms.
The LSx's didn't lay the Supra TT's to rest. That's a ridiculous statement. The LS1 F-bodies hit the market the year Toyota stopped importing TT Supras, and in the years prior the production numbers were very low. Toyota shot the Supra market in the foot in a few ways, including the huge cut in MSRP in '97 and dropping the TT's due to emissions concerns.
BPU Supras still are impressive. For $1000 worth of mods (downpipe, boost controller, mid-pipe/catback and boost gauge) they can run 11's with a 6-speed in the 115-120mph range...on pump gas.
Not just a cam. A cam, intake (lid, TB), exhaust (headers, midpipe and at least a cutout or catback) and tuning.
It'll be interesting to see the numbers the LS2's will make. I know MTI, Cartek, etc. are making cams for the LS2's, but I believe the price of admission into an LS2 powered vehicle is going to keep any "explosion" of development for these engines contained.

 

Heh heh, dont be a sucker. EVo's dont run 12 seconds stock. Mid to low 13's.

 

Mehh, you haven't been around LS1's much. Trust me, there are aftermarket companies that sell bumpsticks capable of making 400 RWHP in LS1 F-bodies with nothing else but tuning. They're perfectly streetable as well, in 6-speed applications.

 

Entirely possible. My only point was that I strongly prefer manuals and won't buy a performance car without one. Now, I make no claim that the perspective I have is popular, normal, sane, whatever... just that personally that's my choice.

There's some ignorant BS.

The 4.6 is LAME without forced induction. The Hemi's locked PCM's have caused more troubles than they're worth. The LT1 DOES NOT respond to mods like the LS1 does in the short term. Mazda's rotaries are a waste of time to mess with in most cases.


The point was that the Supra myth got pretty well shot down in flames when everybody and his brother showed up with a Stage 1 or 2 LS1 and laid the smack down on the BPU crowd.

Been there, done that, killing BPU's is like clubbing baby seals with a Stage 2 LS1.

Cam and tuning only, no lid, stock filter, through stock exhaust manifolds.

 

Holy, Crap.
Are you crazy. . . so you're saying you can gain 70-100rwhp from a cam!? I'd like to see that w/ stock exhaust like you say. Doubt it though. I'm a huge LS1 fan and have owned one and been on the LS1 messageboards since they hit the street, and I haven't seen 400rwhp from a stock Fbody with cam & tuning, ever.

Also, what is a "stage 2" ls1??? A BPU supra running 120mph is not easily smoked.

Oh, and Bob Cosby with his '99 Cobra + bolt-ons seemed to run as fast as LS1's with bolt-ons.
:-)

 

btw, you don't hear about the supras as much because a couple reasons.

When the LS1 (fbody or vette) came out, there was finally an alternative for going fast with few mods.

The price of Supras has gone up rapidly in the last few years. What would you rather have bought, a '94 supra with 60k miles for $25k+, or an LS1 powered Fbody for as cheap as $13k (used, good condition, less than 60k miles), to $25k for a brand new 2002.

Me? I bought a 1998 Z28 with 8k miles back in 1999 for $18k. . . easier to find than a Supra, cheaper, newer, and pretty good bang for the buck.

 

Well..."mehh", I've been around them enough to know that a cam and tuning isn't worth 80-100rwhp on an otherwise stock car.
Show me some examples of 400rwhp LS1's with just a cam, and I might be convinced.
S.

 

Well, I'm in a similar boat. I don't like automatics in a performance car, but some do. Spend 3 hours in traffic leaving Manhattan through the Lincoln or Holland on a Friday and slushbox starts to look pretty tempting.
What about the 2JZGTE's, the LC2's, the blown 4.6's, the 4G63's?
You have to qualify your statement by saying "without forced induction", otherwise, you can't support that argument.
Hell, even little bolt-on 5.0's will make 300rwhp. Strokers will make 400-425rwhp.
The LS1 is a great engine, but there are plenty that respond quite favorably to mods.
What's a "Stage 2" LS1? For that matter, what's a Stage I LS1?
Stock midpipe and catback? No other mods? I'd like to see that.
S.

 

Start readin'...

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/search...4&pp=25&page=1

 

He's right pacerx. 400rwhp is possible with a cam, lt's and a tune. With stock manifolds and exhaust I dont hink so.