Alpha (+) is envisioned as a Sigma replacement. It's possible Camaro may (or may not) share elements of this Alpha offshoot. Right now, most Alpha development is being focused on Cadillac's "ATS" line up - coupe/sedan/convertible. Camaro work will commence once these are done. I do know that those working on it are EXTREMELY focused on it being substantially lighter/smaller than the 5th gen.

Let's hope for the best, because Mustang certainly has it's act in gear. And the next gen (circa 2014), will be lighter than this one.

If you are saying that GM simply does not have the ability to compete with Ford here, then they should just keep it on Zeta and change it's name to Monte Carlo.

 

Wouldn't it be easier (and cheaper) to simply call the Chevy Alpha coupe something else, and keep the Camaro on Zeta?

 

Well Jake, we are not talking about LS1 or LT1 blocks we are talking about a 5.4 mod engine. And again a fast Google serch showed me the the GT500 should drop over 100lbs the Aluminum wet sump block is 110lbs and the 5.4 cast block is 239lbs.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...KeyField=10443

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...tKeyField=8447

Word on the Mustang forums the Gt500 is set to drop 200lbs. So I would bet that Mustang Gt will not gain much if any weight.

 

That's what I've heard too. GT doesn't gain weight. GT500 and V6 both lose weight.

 

Wonder if the price is going to change much?

 

Oh yeah, heres a sobering thought...

If GT500 loses 200 pounds (which I can't confirm), it'll make it a big, bad 540 hp Mustang, which weighs less than a base Camaro V6.

Now THAT would be embarassing.

 

Why's that? I mean its GM's hottest car in 20 years. Name one car in 20 years that customers have lined up down the street to pay dealerships rediculous mark-ups to get? I believe you also predicted the car wouldn't sell well at all. In 5 months with limited production they have sold every car they built and are at 43,xxx units.

I think once again your disdain for the 5th gen/Zeta is clouding your judgement.

 

You must be mixing me up with someone else, I never said it wouldn't sell. I said sales would be hot until initial demand is met.

There are lots of cars people line up to pay through the nose for. You need to get out more.

 

I would have a hard time not pulling the trigger on a new GT-500 if that's the case. The only catch is, what does this do the the base price?

 

The friend I was speaking with has seen a prototype 6th gen body on Alpha plus, sitting next to a 5th gen. He said there was not a significant visible difference in size. This was back in early 2009, so I'm assuming the 5th gen was a production-intent model.

 

Hmm, that's interesting. I'll do some snooping. Did he have any impressions regarding it's styling direction?

 

The current BMW M3 weighs just 3700 pounds.
The current Mustang GT weighs roughly 3550 pounds.
The supercharger setup on the GT500 adds at least 100 pounds, minimum.

Depends on if the block is similar or if underhood packaging changes.

Remember, Ford not only went with an iron block in the 2003 Mustang Cobra, but strapped the largest passenger car supercharger that Eaton made to the top of it. Ford had to put on a different front suspension tuning and struts, but that was the extent of structural change for a car that was only going to sell about 10K per year.

Whatever changes (or testing) Ford has to do for the 5.0 is completely a non issue, and in and of itself isn't going to change any crash results requiring any heavier metal.

That said......

The PERFORMANCE changes in the GT WILL add weight.

Brembo calipers are not light weight when compared to stock.
Bigger iron brake discs are heavier than smaller iron brake discs.
Cooling system will need to be larger... and coolant isn't weightless.
6 speed manuals are heavier than 5 speed manuals.

All these little things WILL add up.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see the 2010 Mustang GT gain at least 100 to 150 pounds.

Of the 4 major car mags, Camaro has lost 3 of them to the Mustang.

Most impartial internet news sites comparisons give the nod to Mustang.

Although you're right that most all praise ride quality of the Camaro, they also mention understeer, steering response and handling that is far less encouraging than the Mustang.

To set things straight, the Camaro IS quick, it IS fast, and it DOES handle well. But Mustang's interior, handling, and overall feel so far has been exceptional enough in most tests that the the Camaro's acceleration and great body isn't superior enough to overcome Mustang's superiority in all other areas.

One can only imagine. You should see the prices the '09s are going for now.


Good point, Branden.


A bit.

It's what happens to the engine in a frontal crash.

It should submarine downward towards the bottom of the passenger compartment.

The engine performs no function in crash resistance other than being factored in to what happens to it in a crash. It's the metal around it that's absorbing the crash.

Therefore, the material of the engine is irrelvent.

Aluminum will crush you just as well as iron.

 

The Consumer Reports GT weighed 3605. I don't have my copy handy, but it was probably a high level model. The Challenger was 4115, and the Camaro SS was 3900, IIRC.

 

The Mustang and Camaro are the same size, for all practical purposes. If the Mustang with 400hp doesn't gain much weight, then it's up to the Camaro team to take advantage of their IRS and adjust steering feel.

But let's see what Mustang comes in at....bossco's analysis looks thorough, but we'll know for sure in a few months. Until last July, lots of people were still betting on the Camaro coming in well below where it did.

I don't put much stock into the "200 pounds heavier than an M3" comment. I doubt the originator actually knew what the weight of the Mustang was.

 

OK getting back to the point on how BMW weighs their cars.

They don't take a base model. They take a car optioned up as the majority are sold. They then add in the weight of an average driver(i'll assume male) + a 90% full tank at 6lbs/gal + 10kg of stuff.

Let's assume that adds up to 250lbs.

3704(stated curb/unladen weight BMW style) - 250lbs = 3454

3454 + 200lbs(the weight Ford claimed the BMW was lighter by) = 3650!

The exact weight that all speculation by stang insiders have been pointing to over the last 12 months or so.

The 5.0 is going to come in at 3650lbs 400hp and it don't look good for the SS.