Z28x

Ok...people in the know, what engine is it going to be, or will multiple non-V8s be offered? There have been rumors going around about all three.

Threxx

Who is in the know? I'd tend to suspect only a couple people in this forum could answer with any reasonable authority on the subject and therefore a poll would kinda mask their answers unless they also post them.

96_Camaro_B4C

I still say 4.3L, though it does not make me happy to say it. And if I'm wrong, I'll be happy to be wrong.

As I said before, though, I'll just think of the 4.8L small block as the "effective" base engine, with 285 hp or whatever it will have for the new style trucks. It will be interesting to see how things are priced. Will the 4.8L still be a $945 upcharge like on the current trucks? What about transmissions, if the manual goes away and autos are standard across the board?

91_z28_4me

Joe would be one of those in the know and it seems he thinks the 4.3 will still be around, which is really, REALLY sad.

96_Camaro_B4C

Well, at my current position, I'm only kinda in the know (usually by way of friends I still have at MPG).

Like I said, I'd be happy to be wrong. Or, maybe I'm just sandbagging so there will be a pleasant surprise?

91_z28_4me

Don't lie.

Oh who am i kidding I am to sad about the 4.3 still being around to be angry.

Heck after thinking about it I would rather they put the 3.7 I5 into the 900 trucks than the 4.3.

AlfredB18

Unless the 4.2L gets redesigned to where it isn't made to have a 4x4 front axle going through the oil pan, I can see it in anything other than a TrailBlazer clone.

An enlarged I5 eventually? Hey, no problem.

A 4.5L v6 version spun off the 6.0L v8, fair enough.

So, my choice/thought isn't up there.

Threxx

I don't think I would. The I6, maybe, but the I5 just doesn't really have any low errpm power advantage over the 4.3L, and isn't nearly as established in terms of durability. The 4.3 is legendary. The I5 is still pretty unknown.

jg95z28

Which is why they won't use it as the base motor now. Someday? Maybe, but since everyone one else using a base V6, GM will do the same. Why risk being too different? If the I5 Colorado/Canyons were flying off dealer lots at a record pace, then maybe it could work, but I seriously don't see it happening at this point in time.

DOOM Master

I rarely post in this forum, but I'm very puzzled why everyone seems to have such a huge complaint about the 4.3L being the base engine. The only truck this is going into is the work truck (W/T) trim, which is the bare, stripper truck anyway. Most of these are bought by companies to use anyways. Ford still offers the 4.2L V6 engine for the base level truck, which is pretty much Ford's version of the 4.3L (they are very similar in power and torque).

This engine might be old as dirt, rather crude by today's standards, but it is very cheap to produce, gets fairly good mileage, and is exactly what those who buy the W/T trim level need. Would the 4.2L from the Trailblazer be a better engine in this case? Not really, because it would cost more and therefore would either reduce the profits for GM or GM would have to charge more for the truck to keep profits up (which might end up costing them money anyways, since fewer people might buy the base truck then).

The W/T Silverado comes out to $16,696.00 (for my zip code of 61554). Ford's base level is $18,710.00, both of these not including any rebates or incentives. You can also choose the 1LS trim with the 4.3L, which ups the price to $20,975.00, and is pretty much just a options upgrade. If wanted, you can upgrade the engine to the 5.3L V8 for $1745.00. Once you go up to the 1LT trim, the 4.3L disappears as the base engine and is replaced with the 4.8L (5.3L is again optional for additional charge).

I just don't seen any reason to replace the 4.3L V6 with a more expensive to manufacture engine like the I5 or I6, or even a new V6 based on LSx design. This engine is perfect for what it does, and the people buying it aren't interested in spending more money. Those that are interested in more money and power are going for the 1LT 4.8L or upgrading to the 5.3L.

rlchv70

Emissions? NVH? Fuel economy? Production capacity?

96_Camaro_B4C

This is exactly true. As long as they keep pricing in line, such that I can get a 4.8L (which is a $945 upgrade, making the W/T package a still very reasonable $17641) for very similar money to the competition's V6, I personally am fine. I'm mainly concerned about the media and public looking at this, then looking at the likely much more powerful (but more expensive) base V6 in the upcoming Tundra and bitching. At this stage, I think the Titan is 5.6L V8 only, so it doesn't matter as much. And, as you said, the F150 has a similarly weak base V6 for the bargain basement W/T type crowd. So does the Ram, for that matter. Base Ram engine is a 3.7L V6 (from the Liberty), with 215 hp and 235lb-ft (at 4000 rpm). The 3.7L I5 easily beats those numbers. The 4.3L is down on power (by 20 hp), but offers a significant torque advantage, and at a much lower rpm, iirc.

4.3L = 195 hp, 260 lbft @ 2800 (almost like a diesel compared to the others!)
Ford 4.2L OHV = 202 hp, 260 lbft @ 3750
Dodge 3.7L OHC = 215 hp, 235 lbft @ 4000
Toyota 4.0L OHC = 236 hp, 266 lbft @ 4000 (current Tundra; 41 hp advantage!)


I think part of what allows/forces the domestics to do this is that they do cater to the W/T crowd as well as the private owner using a pickup as the family truckster. I think Nissan and even Toyota, to an extent, are much less focused on the W/T crowd, simply because they don't have nearly the history and the clout that the Big 2.5 have in that area. Toyota does offer a base regular cab V6 in the same price range as the base Silverado, though ($16xxx). Of course, things like this are where that extra $1500 per vehicle in health care and legacy costs really hurt GM. Maybe they COULD go all out and offer a kick ***, super smooth, 290 hp 4.2L line 6 as the "base" engine (even though it likely costs more than the small blocks) and still make a healthy profit margin if they did not have to deal with the legacy crap.



But, as DOOM Master and I have pointed out, the 4.3L is really aimed at a low volume (?), super low price segment of the market. To me it looks fine next to the others, at least now, but a more modern engine would have been cool for image, marketing, and customer satisfaction. Gotta make some money though.

Threxx

The 4.3L will be fine and dandy for a most people who opt for it. As mentioned - 260 tq @ 2800 rpm means it's not that shabby down low - but rev it up and you'll wonder why they didn't just set the rev limiter at 3000 rpm. I know from experience. It gets all revved up and loud yet it doesn't seem to move any faster.

The main place I see this as a bit of a potential problem is marketing. It's a brand new design and it still has the least powerful base engine in its class. The F150 is now 3 years old, the Ram is 5 years old, and the Tundra is 7 years old (though its new powerful V6 has only been in the Tundra for 2 years and will likely follow it mostly unchanged for the new redesign coming out in a couple months).

The only exciting drivetrain I see in the new design is the 6.2L w/ 6-speed auto, and while the Hemi, for example, can be found in very basic standard cab low equipment level Rams... it sounds like the 6.2 is only going to go in the high end trucks, for now. They need to make the 5.3 more competetive IMO (assuming the motortrend numbers are correct) or offer the 6.2L w/ 6-speed combo for almost all levels of half ton truck trim.

96_Camaro_B4C

Well, the good news is that the 6.0L is no longer the top dog. I'm guessing it will be offered in lots of 1500 trucks (like the 345 hp "Vortec Max" is on the current truck). The ~350 hp 6.0L should have little trouble being competetive with the Hemi or the 5.6L Nissan. The 5.3 has no trouble with the Ford 5.4. What remains to be seen is the power/torque offered by the top Tundra engine. Perhaps the 6.2 will have to proliferate quickly if the Tundra engine offers significantly more than 355 hp / 390 lbft, or whatever the 6.0 is rated.

Z28Wilson

The top Tundra motor is rumored to be 380 HP. This is why I said it is alarming that GM is showing little concern with the competition. I'm not doubting the GMT-900 will still be the better truck, but I am worried that the next Tundra could (finally) have the raw capabilities to make some people look twice at it.