LWM

Just exactly that.

SLP 35mm hollow bar up front, SLP 21mm bar out back, G2 control arms out back with poly bushings where ever applicable. Stock ride height. Sub frames and a STB, 275 X 40 X 17's in good condition, stock shocks ... It's a pretty good handler, no vette, but it is pretty sharp ... anyway ...

Nearly got into a bind ... on a slow 90 degree turn. Entered the corner quite fast and could have exited without any fan fare ... but ... I just had to get back on the gas. The back end started to come out, so instead of immediately backing off the gas I left the throttle at that power setting and the back end continued to slide out, so then I began to counter steer, but kept the throttle steady, things got worse as the back end began to think it was the front end. I "Had" to lift and of course it snapped back the other way ... and began to repeat the process, nearly got some grass on the roof ... but all ended well.

That's about it. I'm sure I'm not the only one to do this and would like the experts opinion on how to recover properly when the tail starts to "get happy".

thx

LWM

Z28SORR

From the stricly driving aspect not suspension changes. I think it should be obvious, brake harder earlier or excellerate slower later.
Once into an over steering condition it comes down to driver reaction time. This is what seperate the Michael Schumacher's from the rest of the pack. If you had corrected sooner you may have been able to catch the drift. If you had lifted a little less the same applies.
What you did, and we have all done it so don't feel bad, is over correct. You turned to sharp to fast and lifted to much. By doing this you transfer the weight of the car, back onto the rear wheels increasing their grip and causing the car to be "thrown" in the opposite direction, the direction you are now steering. Depending on your alignment you can some time simply release the streering wheel. The steering will automatically center itself in its current direction, usually faster than you can steer, and stop the drift. At this point you can then pick up the steering again and point the car where you want it to go.
You know that they say, practice, practice, practice.

bryanz882

I'm a soloII novice and I got a really good piece of advice from many instructors there. When leaving a turn and smoothly hitting the gas pedal, always anticipate that your car will oversteer by turning the wheel slightly into the opposite direction of your turn. It may seem wierd because you're all of a sudden pointing your car almost off course from the next gate going full throttle, but it definitely works. Whatever slight amount of tire slide you may have caused your car to go into, even if it was just a tiny amount, you got the power to the ground the whole time and your exit speed ends up being faster! Just re-adjust your race line now that you have traction and direct yourself into the next gate. Trust me your times will be a lot better by applying this technique on each turn.

bryanz882

.... actually that exact same thing happened to me right before I crossed the finish line at one of the events. I fishtailed one way, and then the other way and spun out. Luckily I didn't hit any timing gates because they make us pay for them if we do.

mitchntx

I've had this happen to me before as well. It can be very frustrating.

I was riding with a very accomplished driver (Lou Gigliotti) once and the *** end stepped out pretty good and I thought we were going around.

But he snapped the steering wheel into the skid and nailed the gas. Seemed a rather odd reaction. I was always under the impression to maintain throttle and gently steer into the slide to compensate.

Wrong ...

When I asked Lou about his technique, he said with the car sliding sideways, you only have 2 tires biting the track and they are the least important of the 4 at the time. He said, to whip the wheel till you get the car underneath you and then give it throttle to transfer weight to the back.

Now, obviously it sounds a lot esier to do on the internet than it is to accomplish in practice. But I have been able to use this information to save my *** on occasion since then. Maybe not as pretty as Lou diod it, but I kept all 4 wheels on the track.

Good luck and seat time is the best teacher ...

cndctrdj

this seems alot more complicated than it is being said on here. does anyone have a video of this being done. in my truck it is easy to step out the *** end and then get it back where you want it to be but the car is so much more twitchy that i can never seem to get it back in place. anyone else seem to have this problem

CrazyHawaiian

From my experience drifting on the track, if I induce oversteer and then want to end the drift I just ride it out. No throttle and no brakes, just countersteer and ride it out. The car will want to re-grip. Beware of a snap back but if you countersteer right you wont have that problem. Now I guess if you were in a racing situation and you wanted to keep your speed, then countersteer and apply throttle like that guy did will work. Thats basically a large part of what drifting is, using countersteering motions and throttle to maintain a controlled state of oversteer (but its also about other techniques like initiating and extending). If you ever have some free time in a skid pad, its good to practice throwing your car around like that to get a feel for what happens. If you ever get into that situation on the track again you can train yourself to react the right way (to re-grip if that is your intention).

kgkern01

I have heard that the poly/poly combination on the rear LCA causes too much bind in the rear and can help to cause oversteer as well. That is why a lot of guys go with either stock, or poly/rod-end LCA, to allow the movement of the rear in turns.

O-taka

yes, your 21mm rear sway and poly all around in the back is partly to blame

you don't say what kind of tires. if they were not race tires, that also contributed

or shocks. too much compression or rebound will also make big oversteer.

basically, you need to lift at some point, just momentarily. if the rear wheels are spinning, they will continue to spin until you get the car righted. holding or increasing throttle when the car is sideways is for those drifting guys

LT4Firehawk

I've experienced this to varying degrees over the years in my different f-bodies, both on the roadcourses and on the street.

First, let's address some hardware issues. LCAs with poly/poly bushings will exacerbate the problem. You are better off with stock than with poly/poly LCAs when it comes to handling. The better solution for an upgraded LCA is either poly/rod or rod/rod LCAs. The larger rear sway bar will also contribute to this problem, and stock shocks definitely won't help either. My car with the SLP Level II suspension is very easy to correct when the rear end steps out and takes just a flick of the steering wheel to correct when the rear end steps out on the street.

Next, let's talk about driving technique. The start of the proper response to this condition is to steer into the skid. Where most people go wrong is letting off the gas, which will cause more weigth transfer off the rear wheels, which in turn causes more of a skid and the car will either go into a spin or if it does regain rear grip the car will have a sudden and massive "snap" in the opposite direction. Lou's technique of applying the throttle while countersteering is actually the best way to recover as it provides weight transfer to the rear for quicker grip recovery, and will allow you to drive out of the skid. You may be thinking, "but I'm already going to fast, that's what put me into a skid". This isn't really true as the skid itself will have scrubbed off a decent amount of speed (unless you were going insanely too fast for the corner), and by the time you correct and accelerate you will probably be at about the correct speed. As has already been pointed out, this isn't as easy as it sounds. Also, this doesn't mean floor the gas. You just want weight transfer to the rear, you don't want to light them up.

O-taka

lifting momentarily can also mean 80% throttle to 60% throttle then back, not completely off or zero throttle

counter-steering goes without saying. if not it won't matter anyway

Jon A

It depends upon what you did to make the tail step out in the first place.

If you stuck your foot to the floor and spun the rear tires severely to make the tail step out as if you're trying to do doughnuts in the high school parking lot...then yes, lifting a small amount can help bring the tail back in line as the rear tires will regain grip when they slow down to spinning the same speed as the road is going past them.

If the rear steps out because of too abrupt/too much steering input, simply too much rear roll stiffness or because you lifted/aren't on the throttle enough in the first place...then lifting is the absolute worst thing you could do. It will make the tail come around even faster (yes even if "lifting" means going from 80% to 79% throttle). Adding throttle is the correct response here.

And of course, you're countersteering in all cases.

Soma07

How about if you get a little too agressive with your trailbraking? I know I've spun my car at least twice doing that while autocrossing.

JordonMusser

to somebody that has figured out not to jump off the throttle, the only other "thing" to it is lightening fast counter steering reflexes. to really save a car that is out of shape, you must be AHEAD of it. IE, you are actually countersteering before the car is that sideways. If the car is 20degrees sideways(and still getting more and more sideways) you need to have the wheel at 21 degrees and moving at the same rate as the car is.

Braking is the same way. Easy off the brakes, and keep that wheel moving.

O-taka

well they're saying lifting even 1% is bad

guess they're talking about high speed lateral drifting

cuz at autox, i only got like two car widths or less to drift sideways like that