Inexpensive auto X starter mods, opinions please.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 77
From: altamonte springs florida u.s.a
Inexpensive auto X starter mods, opinions please.
I know first & for most driver skill is the most important mod "so to speak".
My fist goal is to learn to drive better.
But ive got a little money comming way, so i figured id buy a few things for my ride, now that ive been bitten by the auto X bug.
Ive needed tires for a while, the Futuras that came on my car are pretty shot.
I found these Kumos in Jegs pretty cheap & the local tire dealer said he would match the price "wont have to pay shipping".
I dont want really expensive tires b/c im gonna tear them up at the auto X & i'll be using them for daily driving as well.
I think these are a good choice, what do you think?
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...73&prmenbr=361
The next inexpensive mod i thought of was a strut tower brace.
My car has tops, so i figured it would help with some of the flex.
Is this a good brace.
http://www.slponline.com/view_produc...RTNUMBER=70005
I was also thinking about better brake pads, since the ones they put on my car when i bought it, are very cheap & make tons of dust.
My front wheels never look good b/c of them, i wash & the next day they are dirty as hell.
In fact the pads are so soft, when we put new front rotors on, the brake tool made a impression on them.
Will good front pads on my stock rotors help some, what a good mid priced pads "Hawk, EBC"?
The next part i was thinking about was a sway bar, but i don't even know if i should go that far yet.
Should i just do the strut tower brace, tires & brakes pads 1st & hold off on other mods till my skill improves?
But i did find this one should i buy one.
http://www.slponline.com/view_produc...RTNUMBER=70003
My fist goal is to learn to drive better.
But ive got a little money comming way, so i figured id buy a few things for my ride, now that ive been bitten by the auto X bug.
Ive needed tires for a while, the Futuras that came on my car are pretty shot.
I found these Kumos in Jegs pretty cheap & the local tire dealer said he would match the price "wont have to pay shipping".
I dont want really expensive tires b/c im gonna tear them up at the auto X & i'll be using them for daily driving as well.
I think these are a good choice, what do you think?
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...73&prmenbr=361
The next inexpensive mod i thought of was a strut tower brace.
My car has tops, so i figured it would help with some of the flex.
Is this a good brace.
http://www.slponline.com/view_produc...RTNUMBER=70005
I was also thinking about better brake pads, since the ones they put on my car when i bought it, are very cheap & make tons of dust.
My front wheels never look good b/c of them, i wash & the next day they are dirty as hell.
In fact the pads are so soft, when we put new front rotors on, the brake tool made a impression on them.
Will good front pads on my stock rotors help some, what a good mid priced pads "Hawk, EBC"?
The next part i was thinking about was a sway bar, but i don't even know if i should go that far yet.
Should i just do the strut tower brace, tires & brakes pads 1st & hold off on other mods till my skill improves?
But i did find this one should i buy one.
http://www.slponline.com/view_produc...RTNUMBER=70003
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,132
From: Atlanta Ga
This is my opinion for what it's worth.
Start with front and rear sway bars. They will make the single biggest improvement in the handling of the car.
Shocks would be next if you can afford them.
At that point you can go off a million different directions.
Tires will make a tremendous difference.... but you have to keep them planted firmly on the ground. Until you can control body roll and the cars movement over bumps etc, really good tires would be a waste, you'd just chew them up.
Call Sam Strano Jr. and talk with him. Go to www.stranoparts.com and see what he offers. He understand's F-Body's as well as anyone.
Start with front and rear sway bars. They will make the single biggest improvement in the handling of the car.
Shocks would be next if you can afford them.
At that point you can go off a million different directions.
Tires will make a tremendous difference.... but you have to keep them planted firmly on the ground. Until you can control body roll and the cars movement over bumps etc, really good tires would be a waste, you'd just chew them up.
Call Sam Strano Jr. and talk with him. Go to www.stranoparts.com and see what he offers. He understand's F-Body's as well as anyone.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,713
From: Orlando, Florida, USA
Gerry, feel free to email Jeff, Jim or myself. Yes we get a bit competative but we still help eachother out as much as we can. My email is chjesthe@cfl.rr.com .
As for the shocks, we don't have hardly any bumps at any of the sites we use. So you can wait on those. Yes they are important especially if yours are shot. But other mods will help more for less money. I don't recommend a rear bar. You want to stiffen up the front and leave the back relatively soft. A rear bar can be added with a stiffer front but you'd be spinning all over the place with a stiff rear bar and stocker front. A strut Tower brace will help reduce chassis flex. They're cheap too. If you're gonna put subframe connectors on I think that bumps you up a class. They are good to have but what you have to keep in mind with all of your mods is what class you want to run in and what you are allowed to do to the car and still remain in the desired class. Go out to www.martinsportscarclub.com and check the rule book. It's all online in a free PDF file.
Here are my recommendations:
For now:
Tires - Your choice. If you're gonna spend a lot here you might as well get an extra set of rims and put a good cheap set of tires on them. These are decent tires to get started on. Not the best for sure. But cheap with a fair amount of grip. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....odel=ECSTA+711
Front sway Bar:
I love the ST 35mm Front Bar. (ST-50080)
http://www.stranoparts.com/index.php $150
Front Brake Pads:
Hawks seem to have a good reputation. You can call Strano and they'll steer you toward the right ones.
You are allowed to change shocks too. But I recommend changing the springs at the same time. And that bumps you out of stock class where you'll be more competative for a while.
That's it for now. With these mods you'll still run in Stock class unless you have other mods on your car already. When you move up to GTP with us you can add the STB, race tires, springs, shocks, engine mods, just about whatever you want except internal engine mods.
Welcome to the addiction - BTW
Chuck
As for the shocks, we don't have hardly any bumps at any of the sites we use. So you can wait on those. Yes they are important especially if yours are shot. But other mods will help more for less money. I don't recommend a rear bar. You want to stiffen up the front and leave the back relatively soft. A rear bar can be added with a stiffer front but you'd be spinning all over the place with a stiff rear bar and stocker front. A strut Tower brace will help reduce chassis flex. They're cheap too. If you're gonna put subframe connectors on I think that bumps you up a class. They are good to have but what you have to keep in mind with all of your mods is what class you want to run in and what you are allowed to do to the car and still remain in the desired class. Go out to www.martinsportscarclub.com and check the rule book. It's all online in a free PDF file.
Here are my recommendations:
For now:
Tires - Your choice. If you're gonna spend a lot here you might as well get an extra set of rims and put a good cheap set of tires on them. These are decent tires to get started on. Not the best for sure. But cheap with a fair amount of grip. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....odel=ECSTA+711
Front sway Bar:
I love the ST 35mm Front Bar. (ST-50080)
http://www.stranoparts.com/index.php $150
Front Brake Pads:
Hawks seem to have a good reputation. You can call Strano and they'll steer you toward the right ones.
You are allowed to change shocks too. But I recommend changing the springs at the same time. And that bumps you out of stock class where you'll be more competative for a while.
That's it for now. With these mods you'll still run in Stock class unless you have other mods on your car already. When you move up to GTP with us you can add the STB, race tires, springs, shocks, engine mods, just about whatever you want except internal engine mods.
Welcome to the addiction - BTW
Chuck
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,132
From: Atlanta Ga
Yea, you don't want the rear bar, especially if you want to remain in a stock SCCA class. I run a 21.5mm rear bar and it's not too much though. I say to start, forget about the strut tower brace. Not enough bang for the buck to start with. Some people will even tell you they can't feel the difference.
You don't have to hit bumps to need shock control in an autocross. Shocks are needed to control the sudden transient manuevers and to keep the car settled, all are things you need when autocrossing. And ESPECIALLY when or if you change your springs. And they are one thing you can do in a stock class.
Other than an extra set of wheels and autocross tires, that's all I would do to start with. Go ahead and change the brake pads if they're worn, otherwise, wait until you have to. Focus on handling items first, and only those that keep you in the lowest (stock) class. Do and learn the basics first.
You don't have to hit bumps to need shock control in an autocross. Shocks are needed to control the sudden transient manuevers and to keep the car settled, all are things you need when autocrossing. And ESPECIALLY when or if you change your springs. And they are one thing you can do in a stock class.
Other than an extra set of wheels and autocross tires, that's all I would do to start with. Go ahead and change the brake pads if they're worn, otherwise, wait until you have to. Focus on handling items first, and only those that keep you in the lowest (stock) class. Do and learn the basics first.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 537
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 246
From: Orlando, Fl
I would get the tires and possibly the front sway bar and would stop there until you get some more seat time. I ran for 3 months before I began doing any modifications and now it seems I do at least one mod per month. 
It can be an expensive addiction.
It can be an expensive addiction.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 334
From: that place nobody knows
you're on the right track
but don't get Eibach Prokit
i am now convinced the variable rate and decreased suspension travel is not the way to go for autox, even w/ koni SA
i think they would be better for higher speed, like solo I or road racing
but don't get Eibach Prokit
i am now convinced the variable rate and decreased suspension travel is not the way to go for autox, even w/ koni SA
i think they would be better for higher speed, like solo I or road racing
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 246
From: Orlando, Fl
but don't get Eibach Prokit
i am now convinced the variable rate and decreased suspension travel is not the way to go for autox, even w/ koni SA
i am now convinced the variable rate and decreased suspension travel is not the way to go for autox, even w/ koni SA
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 433
From: Athens, GA
just how bad so you think the prokit is? my car has it from the previous owner and i have no desire to raise it back up. will i be in a different class now since im lowered? if so then i guess i can get used to always being last. trey
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 607
From: Casselberry FL USA
The LT1 ProKit's were at one point progressive (which I had on my 95TA). The first gen of ProKit LS1 springs were progressive, then they changed them to linear. I bought a first gen LS1 set that sat idle for two years since I didn't want progressive springs again.
I don't personally care which class my mods bump me into. It's my daily driver first. Within those limitations, I choose what the field says works well.
Short version: Get a larger front sway bar. Upgrade things as your stock equipment fades/fails. Being accustomed to the feel of the car between mods gives you an idea of how parts effect the cars' balance.
---
In my opinion, barring rules, classing and $$$:
- Tires and wheels: Biggest bang will be the widest race rubber on appropriate width wheels you can fit under the wheelwell. But, like BrueckSteve said, I think you may just be chewing up rubber money w/o other mods first. I'm not sure how long the race rubber lasts before it begins to harden.
- Wheel alignment: Go for something like -1.0 camber, ~4.5 caster, and 0.0 toe. You could use at most -0.1 toe-out for some added turn-in. Get the settings equal from side-to-side. More negative camber would be OK too, but you won't get it without lowering the car and/or replacing a-arms. But, more negative camber means less tire contact patch when going straight - and in the Florida rain I don't wan't mine too radical. These settings might drop your tire life 5000 miles on a street tire.
- Shocks: Stock shocks (unless you have a 1LE w/ Koni shocks) aren't designed for auto-x torture - some would argue they aren't designed for the street either. They do not give good ride and roll control. If they oscillate more than twice over bumps, change'em.
- Springs & sway bars: Two different theories here. For a car that serves double-duty on the street, I'd opt for a large front bar & soft springs. Track only duty I might be inclined to go with stiffer springs and less bar if the surface is super smooth. Chuck, Jeff, and I are currently believers in the big bar theory. Lowering springs are good for handling so long as you don't have ground clearance issues. I'd go with a 32mm or 35mm bar on the front, and no larger than a 21 on the rear. I've got a front 32mm and a rear 25mm in sotrage you can play with if you want to see the difference.
- Shock tower brace: I've never felt a difference. I personally don't feel it makes a handling difference as much as it prevents long-term flexing over the vehicle's lifetime. I've got a two-point installed on my car you could test out if you desire as well.
- Brakes: I don't recall what the LT1 brakes are like. I thought the weakest things about the stock brakes was the brake fade. More aggressive pads will dust and/or squeal as well. I'd use what you have until they're shot, then upgrade at that time. I've got take-off LS1 rotors (never turned nor warped) and some take-off HPS pads just sitting idle. I think you need different calipers to use them, though.
Jeff does a better job than I when it comes to fixing the nut behind the wheel before modding the car
Trey: I've gotten used to it too. But those 25-30 runs in a single day at the Evolution school should help me. Now I just gotta figure out how to pay for new tires afterwards
I don't personally care which class my mods bump me into. It's my daily driver first. Within those limitations, I choose what the field says works well.
Short version: Get a larger front sway bar. Upgrade things as your stock equipment fades/fails. Being accustomed to the feel of the car between mods gives you an idea of how parts effect the cars' balance.
---
In my opinion, barring rules, classing and $$$:
- Tires and wheels: Biggest bang will be the widest race rubber on appropriate width wheels you can fit under the wheelwell. But, like BrueckSteve said, I think you may just be chewing up rubber money w/o other mods first. I'm not sure how long the race rubber lasts before it begins to harden.
- Wheel alignment: Go for something like -1.0 camber, ~4.5 caster, and 0.0 toe. You could use at most -0.1 toe-out for some added turn-in. Get the settings equal from side-to-side. More negative camber would be OK too, but you won't get it without lowering the car and/or replacing a-arms. But, more negative camber means less tire contact patch when going straight - and in the Florida rain I don't wan't mine too radical. These settings might drop your tire life 5000 miles on a street tire.
- Shocks: Stock shocks (unless you have a 1LE w/ Koni shocks) aren't designed for auto-x torture - some would argue they aren't designed for the street either. They do not give good ride and roll control. If they oscillate more than twice over bumps, change'em.
- Springs & sway bars: Two different theories here. For a car that serves double-duty on the street, I'd opt for a large front bar & soft springs. Track only duty I might be inclined to go with stiffer springs and less bar if the surface is super smooth. Chuck, Jeff, and I are currently believers in the big bar theory. Lowering springs are good for handling so long as you don't have ground clearance issues. I'd go with a 32mm or 35mm bar on the front, and no larger than a 21 on the rear. I've got a front 32mm and a rear 25mm in sotrage you can play with if you want to see the difference.
- Shock tower brace: I've never felt a difference. I personally don't feel it makes a handling difference as much as it prevents long-term flexing over the vehicle's lifetime. I've got a two-point installed on my car you could test out if you desire as well.
- Brakes: I don't recall what the LT1 brakes are like. I thought the weakest things about the stock brakes was the brake fade. More aggressive pads will dust and/or squeal as well. I'd use what you have until they're shot, then upgrade at that time. I've got take-off LS1 rotors (never turned nor warped) and some take-off HPS pads just sitting idle. I think you need different calipers to use them, though.
Jeff does a better job than I when it comes to fixing the nut behind the wheel before modding the car
Trey: I've gotten used to it too. But those 25-30 runs in a single day at the Evolution school should help me. Now I just gotta figure out how to pay for new tires afterwards
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 433
From: Athens, GA
id like to approach autox in the same way i approach drap racing. i dont care who i lose to so long as i improve what im doing. yea id like to do good when i finally go at it, but i want to get better more so than win. im my biggest competition. thanks trey
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 77
From: altamonte springs florida u.s.a
Thanks for all the info guys, looks like i'll keep the car rather mild so i dont get bumped up a class & my driving skill improves.
After that, now i have alot of good info on where to go next, thanks again.
After that, now i have alot of good info on where to go next, thanks again.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,713
From: Orlando, Florida, USA
I'm thinking about going to the SCCA autocross in Palm Bay this Sunday. I've gotta pay that Cobra back for beating me last week. Give me a call if anybody else is wanting to go too. I'll be in Daytona for the next week so I won't get any emails after tomorrow morning.
718-3266
718-3266
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 246
From: Orlando, Fl
That sounds like fun Chuck but I cooked my transmission last Saturday at the MSCC event. It lost it's deceleration clutches at the event and now anything above 3,000 rpm just makes the car go into coast mode. When I lift the car basically goes to an idle with the tansmission slipping the whole way. It goes into the shop for a rebuild on Monday morning and I don't think risking it on Sunday would be a good idea. Good luck at beating Glen I know it shouldn't be a problem.
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