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Are F-Bodies good handlers?

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Old Jul 24, 2005 | 12:14 PM
  #16  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

I put set of springs on my TA last week and let me tell you. It amazes me at how good this thing handles. It sticks to the road like glue.
Old Jul 25, 2005 | 07:23 AM
  #17  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

Eclipses and Civics aren't cop cars, because state and federal governments must purchase domestic automobiles, because it supports the economy...
Old Jul 25, 2005 | 06:32 PM
  #18  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

F-bodies are very capable when driven properly with minimal prep. Back when the Integra Type R was a big deal, national level F stock auto-x'ers were pulling times comparable to the g stock integras. So this is on tight and twisty courses thats supposedly where the lighter fwd cars have their advantage and our overweight cars with its prehistoric suspensions falls on its face. Suprise, suprise to all those uninformed "domestics can't handle" believers. That being said, a novice driver would probably have an easier time pulling fast times in an Integra, thats only until the F-body driver learns to deal with the weight control issues though.
Old Jul 27, 2005 | 01:57 PM
  #19  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

F-bodies are best on tracks that have long straightaways because they handle much better at over 100 mph than Mustangs and such because they have much stiffer steering. They are highly capable at autocrossing and actually have terrific handling for such an event according to many articles I have read.

I'm pretty sure this is a good article, read it in full and you will learn some things
'96 Camaro vs. Mustang

Last edited by Brangeta; Jul 27, 2005 at 02:18 PM.
Old Jul 27, 2005 | 02:19 PM
  #20  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

Here's another good one:
I like to think of myself as a fairly sensitive '90's kind of guy. I do the dishes, launder my own clothes, put the toilet seat down after I'm done using the facilities, never refer to women as girls, and occasionally read the articles in my wife's Ms. magazine. I try to stay current with the latest, politically-correct names that groups use to differentiate themselves from the rest of the population, and I rarely make fun of people. Thus, you can imagine my surprise when I found myself turned into Billy Redneck after a few short minutes behind the wheel of Chevy's Camaro Z28 SS. Gone were the polite road manners that my mother had worked so hard to instill in me when I first got my license. Gone was my respect for the aged and infirm. This car was built to be driven, dammit, and I didn't need any Sunday drivers holding me back.

The metamorphosis from man to beast was as surreal as anything Kafka could have imagined. Toss the penny loafers and burn the chinos; what I needed for this ride was my leather jacket, oldest tennis shoes, and tightest fitting pair of jeans. I was a man possessed with the idea of 305 ponies under the hood and 17" wheels on the ground, and wasn't about to spoil the occasion by looking like a Ken doll. I blazed out of my quiet bedroom community, and headed for a lonely stretch of road about 30 miles outside of Denver. The power of the car was amazing, and although it wasn't as fast as the Corvette we tested earlier this year, it felt much more wild; kind of like riding a rocket with one of its ailerons missing.

The Z28 is not an ordinary car to begin with, because it is much faster than anything else on the road for the money. Check the SS option package box on the order sheet and you'll be rewarded with a forced-air induction, tire-smoking, menace to society. We want to state very clearly that this option package should only be chosen by those who really like to go fast all of the time. It is not meant for the weekend warrior who would need to drive the car sedately 5 days out of the week, and it is most certainly not meant for people who would ever need to drive the car in inclement weather.

The Z28 SS isn't like other cars; driving it is a lot of work. We had a great time taking it through our road courses, and were amazed by the car's rock-solid stability and faultless anti-lock brakes, but the jarring suspension setup makes the car jumpy on all but the smoothest of roads, causing constant correction by the driver. The big Z-rated tires are on a virtual quest to remove drivers from their intended course by following any truck rut or pavement irregularity into oblivion. Differentiating the SS from lesser Camaros is easy. The poodle-swallowing hood scoop, giant tires, and distinct badges let every state trooper in the county know that you are a speed freak. The booming exhaust will annoy your neighbors, and the snarling engine burble will cause parents to clutch their children protectively when you cruise down the road.

Which brings us to an interesting point about the Z28 SS in particular, and the Camaro in general. Camaros have been stigmatized with an unfair reputation since their introduction. When mentioning the Camaro SS at a cocktail party, I lost the interest of the more sophisticated attendees who moments earlier were listening with rapt attention to my discussion of the Porsche Boxster. (The blue-collar rawness of the SS doesn't sit well with those weaned on caviar and Dom Perignon.) Mention Camaros at your place of worship, and be ready to receive the appalled looks of the elder matrons and clergy. Tell a prospective date that you own a Camaro, and you will find her looking at you like you are some proto-Homo sapiens, forever relegated to using monosyllabic words and occasionally scratching yourself where it is not appropriate.

Why are we so quick to judge drivers of Camaros? Is it because they drive poorly? No, Camaro drivers typically pilot their cars as well as the rest of the road-going populace. Is it because they blast obnoxious music out of their vehicles? Although this is sometimes the case, it is certainly not the norm. In fact, the favored cars for sound polluting, wanna-be, gang-bangers are the ubiquitous Honda Civic, Nissan 200SX, and other Japanese pocket rockets. If not these transgressions, then what? They must be doing something wrong to warrant all of this negative attention. We think that it is because Camaro drivers drive fast, and as we all know from high school driver's education classes, speed kills. Not only do Camaro drivers exceed the speed limit, they usually do it such a way that makes the non-Camaro driving population look silly. By accelerating quickly away from a stoplight, Camaros can safely maneuver for the best lane position when traffic is heavy. With plenty of torque everywhere in the powerband, Camaro drivers can cleave through freeway traffic like a hot knife through butter. In other words, by stomping on the long, skinny pedal, Camaro drivers can exit the sad, slow world of minivan madness and sedan slugishness.

This makes minivan and sedan drivers green with envy, and in retaliation they try and slow the Camaro's pace, often performing amazingly stupid acts to make sure that the Camaro doesn't get ahead of them. We at Edmund's think that it is a psychological thing. People don't want to be passed, because in some strange Darwinian manner, speed implies power and success. Thus by bottlenecking traffic in a Lincoln Continental or Dodge Caravan, drivers can assure themselves that they are, in fact, swift and powerful, when in reality they are merely the crippled mountain goat ready to be downed by the lurking cougar.

Nowhere, it seems, is this psychological dysfunction more apparent than the streets of Denver, Colorado. The fear of being passed is so great here that drivers will not move out of the left lane of traffic even if they are going 10 mph under the posted speed limit with a horde of fast movers descending on them like locusts. Witness the experience of our managing editor in the Camaro SS. While serenely driving down C-470, a big looping stretch of freeway that circles the south and west parts of Denver, Chris came upon a minivan slowly cruising in the left hand lane. Our test Z28 SS was bright red and equipped with GM's ever-present daytime running lights. We are certain that only the certifiably blind could have missed the car. Chris hung respectfully behind the minivan for a minute or two, waiting for the driver to notice him and move over. Since this was Denver, Chris's politeness was sorely wasted. The minivan failed to yield to the faster-moving traffic, forcing Chris to attempt to pass on the right. When Chris moved into the right lane, the minivan moved over too, straddling the center line, leaving no room to pass on the left or right. Chris, who has much more patience than this editor, moved back to the left lane, thinking that perhaps the minivan was trying to move right to let him by. No such luck. Once that minivan had Chris and the pesky Z28 SS back in the left lane, he too moved back into the left lane. This process was repeated a number of times, with Chris's blood pressure slowly rising, until a third lane opened up, at which point Chris dropped the hammer and flew past the idiotic minivan. The minivanner, noticeably chagrined at having his masculinity usurped by the threatening, shark-toothed Camaro, immediately sped up and rode Chris's rear bumper. Ironically, the traffic ahead of Chris slowed quickly, causing Chris to come to an abrupt stop. The driver of the minivan wasn't paying attention, great idea when you're tailgating, and failed to notice until the last moment that the traffic in front of him was no longer moving. He had to jam on the brakes, and according to Chris, spilled coffee all over himself in the process. Final score? Camaro 1, Minivan 0.

My guess is that this is the real reason that people hate Camaros. Camaros are aggressive-looking cars that are often owned by aggressive drivers. Drivers that are not likely to suffer fools or left-lane bandits kindly. As a result, when someone tries to hold a Camaro up, they are likely to be embarrassed. Nobody likes to be embarrassed, so the resulting animosity towards Camaros grows at each occurrence. If you are suffering from this Camaro-phobia, we can offer of a simple solution: go out and buy a Camaro. You don't necessarily need a Z28 SS, the less exotic varieties will suffice, and your fears of being passed will be alleviated. Not many vehicles are faster than a Chevy Camaro to begin with, and for the price there is nothing that's an even match.
Old Aug 15, 2005 | 06:57 PM
  #21  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

Originally Posted by MasterEvilAce


Yeah, i'm pretty sure the roofline on the fourthgens is higher.. 4th gens have more overhang, sit higher (stock)

pretty sure thirdgens did better on skidpad, too or something like that.
Then I got taller. Or did I get shorter?

My old Gen3 was definitely taller than the Gen4 I bought used this weekend.
Old Aug 15, 2005 | 07:10 PM
  #22  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

stock ride height for both?

if so, weird.
Old Aug 18, 2005 | 02:09 AM
  #23  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

Originally Posted by MasterEvilAce
stock ride height for both?

if so, weird.
1992 Z28 coupe Height: 50.4 in.
1994 Z28 coupe Height: 51.3 in.
according to edmunds.com the third gen is almost an inch shorter
Old Aug 25, 2005 | 09:59 AM
  #24  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

when talking to your ricer friends about "handling", first define what you mean. Most ricers confuse steering feel and nimbleness" with handling. To me, handling is about lap times. F-bodies may not have the nimbleness of smaller cars, but in terms of quantifiable performance, we hold our own surprisingly well.

Ricers are so quick to point out at our live axle and immediate say.. aha.. that is ancient technology and automatically assume we cant get around a roadcourse b/c its not an IRS. The truth is, on a smooth surface, which most tracks are, it is not as much of a hindrance as one might think.

At my last track day with the porsche club, the fastest street driven car was driven by my friend - a 2000 z28 with suspension works and on RA1's. E46 M3's, M5's, 993 porsche C4's, 944 turbo's and even the allmighty skyline (R32 imported from japan) had to give way to a street driven camaro. Im sure the driver plays a part, but the car obviously has the goods to be competitive.

Mike.
Old Aug 25, 2005 | 02:04 PM
  #25  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

I think that you'll find in autocross circles, the configuration of the track will determine which car has the edge in terms of handling. Short, tight courses favor short, tight little cars. Open up the course where the cars must run a little bit of velocity between corners, and the F-body really comes into its own.

As for whether a stock third-gen outhandles a stock fourth-gen or vice-versa, why not look for yourself at SCCA records on F-stock and ESP national championship winners? That ought to tell you if they are comparable handlers: If the trophies stopped in 1993, then you will have your answer. However I think you will be surprised.
Old Aug 26, 2005 | 09:34 PM
  #26  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

my car is bone stock on the handling side. and i think it handles great honestly. i can take some pretty tight turns with ease.

Originally Posted by nitr0x
You all know how ricers make the claim that american muscle can't handle.
Thanks
remember, vipers and vettes are used in autocross by many people.
Old Aug 28, 2005 | 04:55 PM
  #27  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

i just did my first HPDE event.. I did pretty well. He graded me pretty well, i could be better on downshifting/rev matching though.

Anyways, all those typical smaller cars out in my group, they were slowing me down in the twisty parts... almost seemed like they weren't pushing it as hard..

My instructor really liked how grippy and predictable my car was too.. and having a wide powerband really helps. He had some to really brace himself by holding the bottom of the seat during the turns.heh..

I just have a few mods, revalved bilstiens, 35mm sold front sway bar, 275/40 R17 Kumho MX, and a T2R out back.

I think I'm going to get some stiffer springs and shocks to help with the highspeed feel.. and a panhard bar out back..
Old Aug 28, 2005 | 08:45 PM
  #28  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

I have a civc and a camaro. The civci is a great little car for nipping around town. It feels light and nimble. I can zip in and out of tight spaces.

By comparison, my camaro is and feels rather big heavy and ponderous, but dayum does it ever hustle, and does it ever sound good and boy I love the sound of tires sqealing when I leave and intersection almost instantly ahead of any other cars. Put me in a long sweeping turn and I can eat the civic.

But, frankly, I don't really give a shirt what others think of my camaro. I love it! And I'll bet most of them would too if they had a chance to drive it.
Old Aug 28, 2005 | 11:09 PM
  #29  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

I just got back from my firt ever auto-x event today, and I was very surprised at how good my car did. I raced in ESP (E- street prepared) and I was shocked at how well my car did. I can tell that there are a few things I need, but right now my only suspension mods are a Torque arm and subframe connectors. That's it.

The car was pretty predictable, it wanted to kick the rear end out a few times, but you have to expect that with RWD cars. I was hnging with a brand new '05 GT, and lagging just a tad behind a new GTO.

Remember, it's 80% driver, 20% car.
Old Aug 29, 2005 | 11:03 AM
  #30  
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?

The best handling f-body I owned was a 94 V6 w/T-5 and 3.42s....... the suspension had been completely swapped, basically a lowered 1LE but with a V6. The balance was superb, it just didn't have the oats for a road course.



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