Are F-Bodies good handlers?
08-30-2005, 12:48 AM
#31
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?
F-bodies have a very picky suspension, and they are very sensitive to what you do to them. If you balance the car out right you can get these things to handle quite well.... but if you have the wrong combo... you will suffer.
08-30-2005, 07:19 PM
#32
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Location: Haslett, Michigan
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?
Originally Posted by Heatmaker
F-bodies have a very picky suspension, and they are very sensitive to what you do to them. If you balance the car out right you can get these things to handle quite well.... but if you have the wrong combo... you will suffer.
Note my SIG:
1.27 lateral g verified at Gingerman Raveway, August 1999.
1st place trophy, Autocross, Prepared category, 2005 National Fbody Motorsports Event.
I dont think they are that picky at all. At least, not any more than any other car. Get your alignment right, tighten up the rubber parts, get some decent shocks, and hang on.
08-30-2005, 08:26 PM
#34
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?
Originally Posted by ws6transam
...and you based your opinion on exactly what experience?
9 thousand dollars and plenty of experience.
I spent years adjusting the suspension on my car to get it to perform the way I need it to when I want it to.
This is an open forum here there are no experts... so what is the point of your post?
If you haven't realized how picky the F-bodies Unibody chasis is on weight distribution and load adjustments I think you still need to spend somemore time in the pits.
Your not the only one doing this sport.
Last edited by Heatmaker; 08-30-2005 at 08:36 PM.
08-31-2005, 06:33 AM
#35
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?
Originally Posted by Heatmaker
9 thousand dollars and plenty of experience.
I spent years adjusting the suspension on my car to get it to perform the way I need it to when I want it to.
This is an open forum here there are no experts... so what is the point of your post?
If you haven't realized how picky the F-bodies Unibody chasis is on weight distribution and load adjustments I think you still need to spend somemore time in the pits.
Your not the only one doing this sport.
I spent years adjusting the suspension on my car to get it to perform the way I need it to when I want it to.
This is an open forum here there are no experts... so what is the point of your post?
If you haven't realized how picky the F-bodies Unibody chasis is on weight distribution and load adjustments I think you still need to spend somemore time in the pits.
Your not the only one doing this sport.
You know, something that indicates that you actually have gained experience in experimentation with suspension setups at a track. It will make your opinion much more qualified and authoritative.
Here's mine:
http://www.ws6transam.org/glateral.html
08-31-2005, 01:18 PM
#36
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Location: Dallas, Texas
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?
I don't mean to pick on anybody, but just to throw this out there: Maybe you spent $9000 trying to correct mistakes you already made. 
Or maybe even $9000 messing it up.
GM made sure every Camaro that came off the line was in a good balance already, and it isn't very hard to throw that balance off when you modify the thing. For example, if you lowered your car, your camber may have gotten messed up, or even the toe in or toe out could have been affected.
I'm not a professional, and I definitely won't claim to be, but that's exactly why I don't modify our cars. There are a lot of people who modify their cars thinking they will be faster, but their mods actually just mess stuff up. For example, I was at a car show, and a 2002 V6 Camaro (automatic) was on the dyno, and the guy had a few mods like exhaust, hyperchip, and a few other minor things, and his car dynoed at 160 hp! He was better off leaving it at stock!
Or maybe even $9000 messing it up.GM made sure every Camaro that came off the line was in a good balance already, and it isn't very hard to throw that balance off when you modify the thing. For example, if you lowered your car, your camber may have gotten messed up, or even the toe in or toe out could have been affected.
I'm not a professional, and I definitely won't claim to be, but that's exactly why I don't modify our cars. There are a lot of people who modify their cars thinking they will be faster, but their mods actually just mess stuff up. For example, I was at a car show, and a 2002 V6 Camaro (automatic) was on the dyno, and the guy had a few mods like exhaust, hyperchip, and a few other minor things, and his car dynoed at 160 hp! He was better off leaving it at stock!
08-31-2005, 02:18 PM
#37
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?
I'm not trying to pick on anyone (esp. Heatmaker) either, however I do need to have a couple facts or at least some evidence of personal observation before I accept an opinion at face value.
I, for one, have my share of discoveries and mistakes: I recently lost a whole lot of traction ability after lowering the car one inch all the way around. The reason? The lower control arm forward mount on the body sits at seven inches from the ground whereas the rear LCA pickup mount on the axle sits at nine inches. With nine & eight inches the problem wasn't too bad, especially with only 262 RWHP on tap. However, by lowering the car and swapping in 400 RWHP, the traction went away. Now I smoke first gear at anything greater than 60% throttle, and second gear better be perfectly straight on dry pavement or it'll lose traction. Thus, I learned that those gimmicky LCA relocation brackets are probably really necessary and I'll need to order some before M10.
I also learned that horrendous wheelhop can mess up your gear lash. Because of the bad LCA geometry, I lost traction at Memphis Motorsports park and hammered my 7 5/8 ring & pinion which resulted in instant gear whine. So,,, those are just this summer's discoveries!
I, for one, have my share of discoveries and mistakes: I recently lost a whole lot of traction ability after lowering the car one inch all the way around. The reason? The lower control arm forward mount on the body sits at seven inches from the ground whereas the rear LCA pickup mount on the axle sits at nine inches. With nine & eight inches the problem wasn't too bad, especially with only 262 RWHP on tap. However, by lowering the car and swapping in 400 RWHP, the traction went away. Now I smoke first gear at anything greater than 60% throttle, and second gear better be perfectly straight on dry pavement or it'll lose traction. Thus, I learned that those gimmicky LCA relocation brackets are probably really necessary and I'll need to order some before M10.
I also learned that horrendous wheelhop can mess up your gear lash. Because of the bad LCA geometry, I lost traction at Memphis Motorsports park and hammered my 7 5/8 ring & pinion which resulted in instant gear whine. So,,, those are just this summer's discoveries!
08-31-2005, 09:58 PM
#39
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 677
Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?
They allow you to mount the trailing arms or control arms lower to the ground. After you put lowering springs in, one end of the trailing arm will move up realtive to the chassis. This makes for poor traction and it is really noticeable at takeoff. Most all mfers that make suspension parts will have these too.
09-02-2005, 04:13 AM
#40
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?
I just participated in a "racing driving school" about a month ago ...
... DAMN, what an experience!!
OK, there were some serious cars there (and some not so serious
). A mid-90's Ferrari 348 Spyder, an '05 Mustang GT, an '03 Z06 ( ), a hopped up mid-90's Mustang GT, a ~'96 twin-turbo Supra, and then a few Integras, Civics, a couple BMW's, and some other crap.
Considering my car is pretty much stock (and an automatic
) it did really well IMO
. Sure, I can feel the weight of the car, and its inherent "understeer" into some of the corners, but I can't blame the car for anything it did wrong on the track that day ... I'm sure a better driver could push the car further than I did, so I can only imagine how it would handle with better springs, shocks, sway arms, and TIRES!!!
All things considered though, I had no problem keeping up with (or pushing) most of the cars on the track that day, except for the Z06, the 2 Mustangs, and the Ferrari. Our cars (and/or driving capabilities) all seemed to be about equal
.
But yeah, IMO the F-bodies can handle just fine ... AND, they pack a helluva punch on the straights, of course!!
... DAMN, what an experience!!
OK, there were some serious cars there (and some not so serious
). A mid-90's Ferrari 348 Spyder, an '05 Mustang GT, an '03 Z06 ( ), a hopped up mid-90's Mustang GT, a ~'96 twin-turbo Supra, and then a few Integras, Civics, a couple BMW's, and some other crap.Considering my car is pretty much stock (and an automatic
) it did really well IMO. Sure, I can feel the weight of the car, and its inherent "understeer" into some of the corners, but I can't blame the car for anything it did wrong on the track that day ... I'm sure a better driver could push the car further than I did, so I can only imagine how it would handle with better springs, shocks, sway arms, and TIRES!!! All things considered though, I had no problem keeping up with (or pushing) most of the cars on the track that day, except for the Z06, the 2 Mustangs, and the Ferrari. Our cars (and/or driving capabilities) all seemed to be about equal.But yeah, IMO the F-bodies can handle just fine ... AND, they pack a helluva punch on the straights, of course!!
09-02-2005, 12:31 PM
#41
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Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: OR
Posts: 2,368
Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?
Yea, I just got done my first HDPE event, and man that was a BLAST! I'm hooked now.
Anyways, i got some relatively minor mods on my 99 Z28.. custom valved bilstiens.. 35 mm solid swaybar up front.. 17" SS rims with 275/40 with Kumho MX's.. and a T2R diff.. and a little neg camber, as much pos castor, and 0 toe up front.
The instructor and I, was pretty impressed on how predictable the car was, and even when entering a few turns a bit too hot, understeer wasn't horrible, even with that swaybar upfront.. (though the autox I've done before has already given me some experience not to simply plow thru carrying too much speed before) It also helped that I was smooth and consistant on hitting the lines... even said he enjoyed riding with me. Of course I can sitll improve on everything (especialy downshifting with heel and toe).. The car itself felt a little light above 100 mph (got to hit 130 on the front and back straights). and he mentioned it felt the rear felt it was shifting ever so slightly on powering out.. perhaps worn bushings or a better panhard rod? and a omre agressive spring/shock combo all around... I wasn't thrilled about brake feel.. even with HP+ pads and fresh bled fluids.. Then again, this is really the first time I've ever done such heavy and highspeed braking... So I was pretty conservative with the brakes..
But I too was chasing down and passing most cars too.. Although the more advanced groups were obviously mostly faster and better drivers than us in the beginner group.
Anyways, i got some relatively minor mods on my 99 Z28.. custom valved bilstiens.. 35 mm solid swaybar up front.. 17" SS rims with 275/40 with Kumho MX's.. and a T2R diff.. and a little neg camber, as much pos castor, and 0 toe up front.
The instructor and I, was pretty impressed on how predictable the car was, and even when entering a few turns a bit too hot, understeer wasn't horrible, even with that swaybar upfront.. (though the autox I've done before has already given me some experience not to simply plow thru carrying too much speed before) It also helped that I was smooth and consistant on hitting the lines... even said he enjoyed riding with me. Of course I can sitll improve on everything (especialy downshifting with heel and toe).. The car itself felt a little light above 100 mph (got to hit 130 on the front and back straights). and he mentioned it felt the rear felt it was shifting ever so slightly on powering out.. perhaps worn bushings or a better panhard rod? and a omre agressive spring/shock combo all around... I wasn't thrilled about brake feel.. even with HP+ pads and fresh bled fluids.. Then again, this is really the first time I've ever done such heavy and highspeed braking... So I was pretty conservative with the brakes..
But I too was chasing down and passing most cars too.. Although the more advanced groups were obviously mostly faster and better drivers than us in the beginner group.
09-02-2005, 12:49 PM
#42
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 5,556
Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?
Understeer in corners? That doesn't seem right. Were they uphill corners? Or did you just enter them without braking enough? That could explain it maybe. When I drive track courses (very rarely mind you) I never really notice having any understeer with any cars except the front wheel drive ones.
I forgot to mention, if you read old car magazines from the 90s, you'll find that the Camaro and Firebird were rated in handling just below the Corvette and Viper GTS as far as domestic cars go. Back then, they didn't really compare them to Japanese or European cars, but I'd imagine an RX-7 would murder a Camaro in the twisties.
The Callaway C8 was rated better than the Viper GTS though, so what does that tell you?
(f-bodies are good handlers).
I forgot to mention, if you read old car magazines from the 90s, you'll find that the Camaro and Firebird were rated in handling just below the Corvette and Viper GTS as far as domestic cars go. Back then, they didn't really compare them to Japanese or European cars, but I'd imagine an RX-7 would murder a Camaro in the twisties.
The Callaway C8 was rated better than the Viper GTS though, so what does that tell you?
(f-bodies are good handlers).
09-02-2005, 05:31 PM
#43
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 677
Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?
Originally Posted by Capn Pete
I just participated in a "racing driving school" about a month ago ...
... DAMN, what an experience!!
OK, there were some serious cars there (and some not so serious). A mid-90's Ferrari 348 Spyder, an '05 Mustang GT, an '03 Z06 ( ), a hopped up mid-90's Mustang GT, a ~'96 twin-turbo Supra, and then a few Integras, Civics, a couple BMW's, and some other crap.!!
... DAMN, what an experience!!
OK, there were some serious cars there (and some not so serious
). A mid-90's Ferrari 348 Spyder, an '05 Mustang GT, an '03 Z06 ( ), a hopped up mid-90's Mustang GT, a ~'96 twin-turbo Supra, and then a few Integras, Civics, a couple BMW's, and some other crap.!!I was there too, in the red z28.
I like to think my car is not crap.
09-02-2005, 08:31 PM
#44
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Re: Are F-Bodies good handlers?
[QUOTE=Brangeta]I don't mean to pick on anybody, but just to throw this out there: Maybe you spent $9000 trying to correct mistakes you already made. Or maybe even $9000 messing it up.
your right... I'm going to break the car down and seel everything in the forsale forums.. look out... there's gonna a be a killer sale soon.
Or maybe even $9000 messing it up.your right... I'm going to break the car down and seel everything in the forsale forums.. look out... there's gonna a be a killer sale soon.
