Just received a set of Hella FF75s I'm going to replace my foglights with. I've seen a couple of cars on the board with these mounted in place of the foglights.

For mounting them, it looks like I could open up the hole in the factory foglight bracket to allow the lights to set in deeper and line up with the side mounting points on the factory bracket, like the "Pilot" light write-up.

Question: Will a dremel tool cut through the metal. Don't have one, but was considering buying one anyway, and this would be a good excuse. If so, which attachment, a cutting disk, or something else?

Next question: Do I have to use the Hella relay/wiring harness that came with them, or can I just splice into the factory connections? Based on other posts, I was planning on saving the Hella harness until later, if I wanted to go to a higher wattage bulb, and just splicing in the lights without using the relay/harness.

If you have a better idea for mounting these, let me know. Thanks!

Wade

 

I have yet to try and mount these in place of the foglights, although I am probably gonna try it sometime. I was actually just thinking about it yesterday.

First off - on the wiring - you don't necessarily have to use the Hella wiring and relays, but it definitely wouldn't hurt anything. The stock foglight wiring harness will handle the 55w Hella bulbs with no problem. But, why not go ahead and use it - that way if/when you decide to go to a higher wattage bulb, all you gotta do is swap the bulb. Plus - the Hella relay has a fuse in it, which is just a fail-safe for you, and the wiring connects easily to the H7 bulbs. You could make the stock harness fit the H7 bulb I suppose, but it would be a little difficult, cause the end clip onto the bulb at 90°. All you would have to do is run the power from the battery, and run the ground, and the other two wires would just splice into the existing fog light wire coming from the switch (before they split into black/purple for each side).

On the other note - I would think they would mount pretty easily into the stock brackets with a little modification. Here's what I was thinking...

With the stock fog lights mounted, just take loose the entire bracket (2 10mm bolts that mount under the radiator support). Then pull out the whole assembly from the bottom of the car with the foglights still in place. It's been so long since I have had foglights now that I can't remember if that is possible, but it seems like it should just come right out, if not, just take the entire bracket out after taking the stock lights out of them. Then, check out the angle of the mounting on the stock lights in the facotry bracket. You want the Hella's to sit in there so that they point strait out and not crooked, so make sure that that would be the case. Then you could actually just do sort of like the Pilot write up and get the correct size hardware and mount the lights to the factory bracket. The only thing I never really liked about the Pilot install is that you had to use the Pilot bracket to hold the lights from moving up and down, and it was visible. I would like to try and fix that were I to do the Hella install.

It should be pretty simple, I just haven't got the money to but another set of FF75's right now, and plus, I don't have the time. Not too sure how a complete FF75 setup would look either...headlights + foglights might be to much. But ya never know till you try.

Whew!

 

I picked these up really cheap, $40 shipped from Ebay. Arrived in 2-days, new in box. The seller was "offraod911." Just search for "Hella FF75."

On the wiring, the lights come with positive/negative connectors out the back, so it would just require splicing into the factory wires.

I actually don't see right off-hand how to change the bulbs. They must come out the front or something. The only bolts are on the sides for the bracket. Do you know how to change them?

Quite frankly, I was having a hard time understanding what the various contacts on the relay did. The instructions just show how the wiring harness all fits together. I would assume the relay needs one wire coming in from the factory foglight switch to tell it to open and allow the direct feed from the battery, but I can't quite tell from the diagram exactly which connection does that, much less how to connect all that into the factory wiring. Could I use the factory foglight connections to trigger the relay?

I have already removed the factory housings, and did a test fit of the Hella housings with the factory bracket still mounted. The Hella housing is too big for the opening in the factory bracket, so it needs to be widened in order for the Hellas to line up with the side mounts. Otherwise, the side mounts are fairly close to the same width of the Hellas. The factory bracket may be 1/4 inch wider or so than the mounts on the Hellas. That's why I think your method of mounting the Pilots would probably work. Maybe even just using some spacers and locking washers with a longer bolt.

As far as alignment, the factory housings look to be square between the mounting points, but the lenses angle along the contours of the front bumper. The Hellas just won't follow the contour of the front bumper.

I think I'm going to buy a Dremel Multi-Pro. I was at the Dremel site and they show projects where the tool cuts off exhaust hangers, so I bet it can handle this.

Whew ...

 

Man - I think you and I have more dialog in this thread already than 90% of the threads posted.

The bulbs are easy to change. You take out the two bolts on the sides of the housings that hold the bracket on (7mm or 8mm) and take the bracket off. Then the entire back black plastic piece slides off from the front. Just hold the front by the little rim around the glass, and pull the back off. Then there is the back of the bulb. DO NOT pull the back off so much that you pull the wiring or the grommet out. Then you unclip the connectors on the back of the bulb, and the entire front will then be seperate from the entire back. Then just remove the T15 Torx screw and you are set.

OK, I will attempt to help you with the wiring - but it will be just a little while - I have tons of work to do here. It is pretty simple though, ONCE you figure it out of course.

 

That would be great, thanks!

 

OK...on the wiring...

To answer your last question on it first - yes, you could use the factory fog light wiring to trigger the relay - but that would be just as much trouble as just using the complete Hella wiring harness - plus you still would have to go back and redo it if/when you decided to go over +/-80w bulbs. If you went that route, there would be lots of wire splicing and butchering involved - believe me, I have done it with other lights.

The biggest drawback to using the Hella harness is hiding the wires.
The biggest drawback to using the factory wiring plus a relay is you are really cutting up a lot of wires.
Now - you really have two options that I would even consider.
A). Go to the parts store and get you a 30-amp relay and leave the Hella harness completely intact.
B). Just use the Hella harness.

If you don't use the Hella harness, you are either going to have to find the female plug ends to snap onto the wire leads coming out of the back of the lights, and put them onto your stock harness leads coming into the existing foglights (clip off the old bulb connector...same principle as in the Pilot Guide), or clip off the ends of the Hella harness with the female connectors on them, and splice them into your existing foglight harness.

If you do use the Hella harness, you just have to supply your power in to the relay (coming from the existing foglight switch), supply the power directly from the battery, and supply the ground. (The other wires, blue and green I think from memory, are for the power out to the lights...they have the female connector ends that match the leads coming from the back of the lights).

Now that that is clear (I hope) a little more explanation of how it works.
There is a main wiring harness that runs down the driver side inner fender. It goes up to the firewall and back down and under the brake lines and such - big black wire looming on it, can't miss it. Inside that harness is where you power wire to your fog lights is. On down the line a little bit is where it splits up into Purple/Black for each side. (Note: The headlights are much the same way just for reference). The easiest way to find which wire is the foglight power supply wire is to trace it back from the wire ends. Just start where the black/purple wires are and go back up the line into that main harness until you find which wire they split off of. Sorry I can't remember the color.

The Hella wiring instructions should tell you which color wire you are going to be using as the power supply for the relay, but none the less it should be on the number 86 terminal. (It should be marked on the bottom side of the relay). You will take the foglight wire from the switch that you just traced down and cut it in two. The half that has power coming from the switch still will tie into the power supply Hella harness wire. The other half will tie into the power out to the lights on the Hella harness. (The one that splits...blue and green...) Then you will hook up the red wire on the Hella harness to the battery. (I actually hooked mine up on the little block that sits on the inner fender with all the other power supplies tied into it). Then of couse the black is your ground.

After all of that - just simply plug the Hella harness into the relay, and plug the wire ends into the wire leads coming out of the lights and you are set. (Of course after hiding the wiring in the factory harness [major pain!] or just running some new looms neatly with the wiring in it).

OK - without the Hella wiring, it's the same exact principle.
Picking up from where you cut the power cupply to the foglights in two...
Run a wire from the powered end of the foglight switch wire to the number 86 terminal on your relay.
Run a wire from the other end of the foglight switch wire back up to the number 30 terminal on your relay.
Run a ground from the number 85 terminal on your relay.
Run a fused wire from the battery back over to the number 87 terminal on your relay. (The Hella relay is already fused, thus no need for a fused wire).
Then just wire up the black/purple ends already supplied to your new lights and you are set.

The second way may sound easier, but it's not all that much better. It looks a little messy, and like I said - it limits your power more.

I prefer the Hella harness - although I admit, it is a little more time consuming. But, you can rest knowing it is done "right."

Any other questions man, just let me know. I am saving this post for use on a webpage dedicated to 4th Gen. Camaro lighting!

 

When I mounted mine I made brackets from aluminum. It was easy. Remove the stock lights and brackets, make a pattern with a piece of cardboard, cut out a pair of brackets using a bandsaw or saber saw, clean up the edges with a file and drill the holes.
I used the wiring and relay that came with the lights too. It's easy to hide the wires (wrapped mine in that plastic split wire tubing stuff) and I put the relay next to the power steering reservoir and took power from the hot post in the red plastic box and ground from the post behind it.

 

that's what i did. you will need two spacers though for each light. can't help you with the dremel tool, i used a milling machine.

i went ahead and used the hella wiring that came with it. i hid the wires nicely with the bundle that goes up the passenger side near the battery. i made another bracket to mount the relay to one of the mounting screws that holds the computer to the car. i ran the wires for the switch inside and connected them to the existing fog light switch.

hope this helps

ps. i can get pics if you want

 

Thanks to all for the advice. I did finally get them mounted this weekend. I didn't have a lot of time to spend, being a family guy and all, but here is what I ultimately decided to do.

I picked up four small 90 degree brass corner braces from the hardware section in Wal-Mart. These were pre-drilled with two holes that are about an inch apart. I flatted them with a hammer. This braces allowed me to use the factory foglight bracket without cutting on the factory foglight bracket. It positioned the Hellas where the rear most edge goes through the opening in the bracket just slightly, so there is room to adjust the light up and down. I wanted to use the factory bracket side mounting points so I wouldn't have to worry about the side-to-side aiming.

I needed about 1/4 inch worth of washers to line up the brass braces with the side mounting points on the Hellas. I used a combination of flat and locking. I also used rubber washers for the mounting points on the Hella casing since it's plastic.

There is about half an inch more clearance behind the factory foglight bracket that could be used. But the Hellas are too deep to just dremel out the factory bracket and use the stock bracket's side mounting points.

The lights do not sit too far forward, but if I had all the right tools, I would dremel out the factory bracket (not sure a dremel tool could do this, since it's fairly thick metal), and shorten the brass brackets about 3/8 inch to set the lights inward slightly. With everything sprayed flat-black, you really don't notice.

For wiring, I tested the lights with the factory wiring, and they were plenty bright, so I just clipped off the factory plug and spliced in new connectors to the lights. The wiring diagram for the factory foglights it identical to what Hella sends. So, if you don't have factory foglights, the kit comes with all you need. The main difference is that the factory relay shows to be 20amp instead of the 30amp that Hella sends with the kit. If I go to a higher watt bulb someday, I'll tackle this.

However, even as is ... the Hellas effectively double the light output of the lows. It's well worth it!

It was a little bit of a pain to do this project because of all the test fitting, and the lack of room to tighten it all up. You have to put the bracket back in first (from the bottom), before installing the light (from the front). You have to leave the bracket loose so you can have room to tighten the bolts on the sides of the lights as well.

 

I dunno if anyone has mentioned this already but just wondering if what I figured out the other day would damage the factory wiring or not.

What noticed is that the "Fog Light" relay inside the engine compartment fuse box has the exact same prong locations as a relay that came with a set of foglights I had bought earlier in the year.What I was wondering is if I just switch them out would the extra voltage from the relay damage the fog light wiring? I tried pluging it in the other day and it did make it brighter BTW

Just thought I would add that to the novel of this thread

 

i took the front clip off. it made everything much, much easier. i was able to aim them a lot easier as well.

 

You making fun of me Archie?

I don't know that I would try that. Just a little reference here...
First use this formula to find the amperage output:
watts of device/volts of source = amps (current being drawn) or W / VDC = I

Example: 55w bulb/12volts (battery) = 4.6 amps
Most people say add 20% for safety...
4.6 + 20% = 5.5 amps

Then use this chart to determine the wire guage size needed. (From Reference Data For Radio Engineers)

Gauge of Wire-------Max Current (in amps)
20------------------------7.5
18------------------------10
16------------------------13
14------------------------17
12------------------------23
10------------------------33
8-------------------------46
6-------------------------60
4-------------------------80
2-------------------------100
1-------------------------125
0-------------------------150

OK - the Hella relay is a 30-amp relay. NOT MEANING that it is putting out 30-amps, but that it can and will put out 30-amps. The relay in the fuse box (stock fog light relay) is GM's "regulator" I suppose - regulating how much current goes through the wires. Running another relay after this is only to boost the output and keep it flowing at maximum wattage to whatever it is going too. I suppose the GM relay should do this - but it doesn't.

SO - I would GUESS that a better relay in there would just put more power out all the time and be fine really - but it may put out more than GM designed anything else in their fuse block to handle - so it may mess something up. Would probably be ok - but it may not. So I didn't help you at all just now.

 

Haha ok

I guess when I find some fog lights that I can mount behind my fog light delete grilles, I'll try it out. I got one set that will fit but they put out yellow light and I want just plain white.

Nah never Dalton

 

I used the 16 guage hole on my wire stripper tool for the foglight wires. So, they are either 16 or 18. I noticed the factory wires were thicker copper strands, versus the silver wire with the Hellas that appeared to be slightly thinner strands. Maybe the stock is 18 and the Hella wires 16.

How's that for a footnote to the novel? Can never have too much detail ...

 

Any one additional detailed pics and info on mounting them in the stock location, I can only find one install page and its not to specific on the hole placement and such.

I have to do this install tonight or tomorrow. And I am only worried about where to drill and how to make them fit. I wouldnt mind a reversible way. I also would like them to be centered in the holes. Thank you.

Do you just drill the housing or the metal bracket across the top? I am very confused on that part of the install.

-Dustin-