MikeStank: Again, I havent decided to sell them yet, I'm not trieng to sell them currently. The information I'm wanting can be had w/out my personal pics. Other people before and after you have had no problem, so I don't know what to say other than what I already have? And since you havent given me anything near a yes or no, I'll have to just end with this.

z28sinx: Some kits swing out full width, then up. I didn't really see the point of that. My kit can be opened normally, or when opened it opens slightly, then rises. The motion is a bit hard to describe, but entry is a snap and you never have to worry about banging someone else's doors at the store.

z28marine: While that's one of my favorite movies, the "professor Emmit smoke option" probably wont ever be produced, I'm sorry for any inconvienence this causes.

Brent94Z: Good to hear from you brent, your one of the guys I'm trieng to pattern after. If I do decide to sell them, then I would contact Jason or Chris in advance. But I would sell them on my site, and take orders there. I don't want to burden this place with all my troubles.

I have to say just like locally the people here are surprsing me. So so far thats 2 people with a firm "yes" and 3-5 with "if the product was visibly appealing" That's what I'm seeing anyway. I still want more opinions though. This would be a big project to add to my plate, and I'm not doing it until I'm sure the demand would be worth it. Of course you can always come to Tenn and have me install a set.

 

I can only say again.. I want a yes/maybe/no. I am not planning on selling them now, I want to know if people like them and would buy them. I don't care if other people have claimed this or not. I have my doors, as do my friends, I just wanted to know if there would be a market for them or not. I can tell with all the pic requests, one last time believe what you wish, but no pics until I get some descent feedback and decide to sell. If this is a problem, I'm sorry, this is how I'm doing it. Other people have made threads asking if we'd buy a-pillar pods, and corvette bumpers w/out pics, and nothing was said, and feedback was precise and to-the-point. Barbs suggesting I'm a fraud wont get you anything. Like I said I'm happy, I have my doors.

[edit]

Yes the doors on that vette look eerily similar to the stance of mine.

 

ok then............Yes i want it

 

Do the windows need to be rolled down for the door to open upward? Would kits be the same for 93-02 camaros? For a door to open up, i guess all stock hinge is removed? If the kit looks good, works properly, is priced right and there actually is no major sawing of my car i would really like to have this kit.

 

stang_killa94: I'll count you as the third "interested person".

sic-v6: (A) The windows do not have to be touched at all for the door to raise, it's opened/closed just like the normal door, but in this case it swings up instead of out. (B) Yes, the kit is a bolt-on from 93-02. I havent tried them on a third gen yet, but I would consider going in that direction also, if the fourth gen kits did well. (C) The stock hinges are both removed, and discarded. The hinges take the place of both. All you need to do for the install, is to remove the door and the door panel, drill two holes for the support bracket in the door (under the panel, out of sight), and bolt the new lambo hinge onto the Jamb. After that, it's just a matter of attaching the struts, door panel, and then adjusting the door alighnment. Total job would take about 3 hours for a first timer. I'll have to let a friend reinstall mine to get an average for that. But each time it's taken me about an hour or less per door.

 

At your proposed pricing, and the looks are all you say, then yes, another seriously interested..........

 

At that price if it comes out looking good I will buy the kit on the spot.

 

You can count me as the 5th interested person.

But I'm going to be honest some things bother me, particularly what CamaroCasanova said in this post here, about our doors being very heavy and how expensive it is to do right. Not questioning your skillz but it sounds too good to be true. But I still give you props for getting it done.

 

Well I'm calling you out.. and yes the history behind it DOES matter, because F-Body people are getting ripped off on Ebay everyday by claims like this.

This is the appearance forum. Post pics. No one is asking for detailed schematics

Yes I have doubts that you have the product already functioning on 4 cars. Why ? Because I would have heard about it by now. If I am wrong go ahead and post pics to prove me wrong .

Either way, the pics should help sell the product so whats the big deal ? We have already seen the Decah pics.

Scissor or Jack-Knife Doors Analyzed

Door Weight & Structure

Fully assembled Lambo doors are about 65lbs or so. If you are converting an existing car, making a fiberglass copy of your doors would help. I wouldn't use Lexan instead of the normal window glass because of DOT street legal rules and scratch easily. However, they do have plastic coatings that prevent this. I know many of you are worried about structural support and impact bracing when using fiberglass doors. First of all, you can use Kevlar in your fiberglass layup. It has a tensile strength of about 44,000psi and should make your door very strong and light. I've seen it run around $35 per sq yard in some catalogs. Secondly, depending on the clearance you have between your window glass (when rolled down) and your door skins, you should also attach support framing - usually the easiest is square-tubed mild-steel stock. Two bars across the middle act as intrusion bars and the end attach to the steel in the door frame. All of this combined can result in a door much stronger than you would find on any mass production car bought today.

Door Geometry

I think the biggest problem to convert an existing door will be the door's shape. On very square doors, the bottom corner may hit the pillar when it tries to rotate upward. There are a few work-arrounds for this. You might be able to find hinges that throw the door forward as it rotates up. You can see this on the new Cadillac concept car as well as the car pictured here. Otherwise, you may also use another hinge setup that pops the door ******d before rotating it up.

Door Hardware

All you really need is a single hinge and a strut. I've heard that Volvo tailgates, mid 90's Pontiacs, and Ford Explorer lift gates provide good salvage yard struts. For a specific strut contact RV shops in addition to the normal strut mnfrs. You will need to know your compressed and extended lengths as well as the force required, which will be more than the door's weight (especially if you locate the strut at some weird point). If you won't be using struts, there are other mechanical and hydraulic options but they will cost you more as well.

Sources for Hinges

There are a few Lamborghini kit car companies that provide hinges for about $100-150 a piece. If you can get them to sell to you, then you're better off than most people. Otherwise, you can try the Additional Links at the bottom.

Determining the Correct Strut Specs

This method uses more experimentation than analysis. I will try and come up with a more mathematical solution and will post that when it's ready.

Equipment Required:

Tape measure
Pencil or crayon to mark on door and body
A helper strong enough to hold the door at the vertical position
Scissor hinges which you will use (this is strongly recommended but not required)
A produce-type hanging scale. You could construct a crude version using a rope, pulley, and some counter weights (like from a dumbell set).
Procedure:

First, you should mount the door on the proper hinges. For a door mounted conventionally you should take it off of its hinges and position it in the door jamb so it is free to rotate up (or out).
From looking at a lot of pictures, the strut is usually mounted on the body about a foot or so down from the hinge. You can use this as a starting point.
The strut's compressed length will be the distance from its mounting point on the body, to the mounting point on the door itself.

[Compressed Length] =
Now rotate the door around its hinge point to the upright position. It is a good idea to have someone help brace it up for you. It will get tricky to hold a 50+ lb door up with one hand while you use the tape measure with the other. Now measure the new distance between the strut mounting points (as in Step 3).
[Extended Length] =
Your length of travel is the extended length minus the compressed length. If your Length of Travel is more than about 40% of your overall length, you will need to move your strut mounting point. The majority of struts will not have a Length of Travel more than this.
[Length of Travel] = [Extended Length] - [Compressed Length]

If the door is empty, attach all of the trim, mirrors, interior, glass, actuators etc. You will need to simulate the weight of the final door. You may use dummy weights but be careful where on their placement. Adding 5lbs to the end of the door versus closer to the hinge will make a huge difference.
Now you will need that hanging scale, or you will need to come up with an alternative. Either way, attach the a hook to your strut mounting point on the door (you found this in Step 3), and pull up to the position you want. The max weight that the scale reads will be your force. The reading might fluctuate depending on the door's position, but it should read the highest when the door is at the closed position. Add about 15-20% to this as a safety margin. You don't want the door to close too easily, plus you should take friction into account and some wear and tear later on, which might degrade the strut's pushing force. Offhand, I know of a '95 civic that was converted and used 175 psi struts. If you don't have a produce scale, I will try to post an alternate method soon. This will not simply be the weight of the door. Leverage is working against you. The closer you mount the strut to the hinge (on the door) the more force it will need to push up. It also depends on the shape of the door and the location of its add-ons.
[Force] =

January 18, 2003

I decided to write a much-needed update to this section since I receive a lot of email from people wanting to add a new door style to their existing car.

"I'd like to order a kit / hinges / struts from you."
Actually, I don't sell any parts or plans for door kits. I also don't have any hands-on experience converting any cars to these setups and I cannot do the conversion for you.

"Do you have any information on door kits for my car?"
No. Sorry, the main purpose of this site is for people who are building their cars from the ground up. This is different than converting an existing car to use a new kind of hinge. When you are designing a new car, you can build the doors around the hinge, which is easier and more reliable. Converting an existing car takes more thought because the doors were designed to open from the side, and not upward.

"I saw your information on eBay."
Yes, for a time there was someone selling information directly copied from this website without my permission.

 

hey i live in murfreesboro tn and go to knox to see my older sister there all the time. i will purchase a kit from you and advertise it here in murfreesboro at the shows here like slammin jammin. give me a call at 615-869-8747 thanks kenny

 

if they work/look well I would definately purchase a set

 

z28sinx: Oh believe me, when I fist had the idea of making something to lift a 70# door above my head, I knew it would have to be done right. The desighn took more than a year to make, so while I'd like to say I whipped it up in a month or so, lol I can't. This whole idea came from me being a cheapskate in the first place, so I made sure it worked and didn't kill me before I even showed it off. And no.. people didnt see it until I chose to, I can open my doors both ways by pulling a pin in the front fender well. I also thought CC had suicide doors? I might be thinking of someone else though.

pu12en12g: (A) That's nice (B) I placed it here because it's where all the other people like Brent and Jason try and get feedback (w/ no pics) I think it's because I'm not a veteran member, that I'm being questioned. I don't mind, but I'm not going to back down, I have no reason to be bullied into anything. (C) Yes, 4 cars including mine, but as I have never heard of you, and none of my friends post here, I doubt that you being all-seeing would make sense? (D) I dont need to help sell the kits, I'm NOT selling them, I'm merely trieng to see if a product was offered, people would buy it. You and one other, are the only ones that don't get this. In any event, think what you wish, but I will not respond to any more pic requests until I decide to sell, period.

 

FLIPPINZ28 Great! nice to have some connections, I'm starting to think this can actually happen.

Blue89Bird so that's 7, I'm counting numbskull in as he seems to be passionate about the doors.

Well response keeps adding up, I have alot to think about. I'm going to ask about having all the individual parts jobbered to see if I could nail down a more accurate price. I would also have to see how many kits I could produce at one time. I am bowled over I expected to be ricer-flamed off the forum.. thanks for the feedback so far guys.

 

I think this is "lambo door GP" number 5 since I've been here. The price is right, but as mentioned above it's strange to hear of 4 cars with an outrageous set-up like this and no pics or previous postings.

Not that it's impossible, or that it's never been done... just that it's never been done that cheap (on a 4th gen). I've seen a few customs like this over the years, and yes I'd be in on a set if it pans out... but I need detailed pics, maybe even video to put down the bills. Universal hinges are common place but most of them look like @ss. The vette pic above is pretty nice lookin, but on the flip side there are hundreds of crack-eatin' civics with cheap kits that "flap" out and up to look absolutely rediculous and break easily in the wind.

How much the door swings out vs. up is really the key in my view. Post a dozen pics from a few angles (maybe even from more than one car: a firebird and an camaro perhaps?) and you'll get a lot more interest/response.

Nothing personal mind you, it's just that we've all done this dance more than a few times, and everytime it's from some dude posting pics of someone else's kit saying "its like that" (and it never is). So you can imagine why there are some sceptics.

 

Steve in Seattle: Understandable, but I havent been here that long to have seen all the others. I don't consider this to be outragous, but heck I'm wierd like that I guess. The reason it's so "cheap" (not sure if I like that word :/ ) is because all the materials can be obtained for a descent price, and mine have a certain "ace in the hole" that allows them to be at a lower price point. And I'm glad they are, it's one of the reasons I didn't buy one from Auto-Loc or the like..

Mine are bolt-on, and far from the generic peices of crap that are universal and need to be modded to work. Most of the universals are made of 1/8 metal. The thickest Ive seen is 3/16.

Good points on the webiste, I was thinking along those lines. I would want to show as much as possible without having the desighn stolen. Im sure after a while I would get copied or whatever, and I cant help that, but I'd like it to be as far off as possible if I do this.

I can also understand the skepticism, which is another reason no pics will be posted other than the site would have. If i decide to sell, I'd redirect everyone there with watermarked pictures. I don't want to be ripped off the same as anyone. But at the same time Ive said 100 times I just want a yes/no/maybe/if, I'm not even sure I want to do this yet, and certian people are acting like I'm trieng to fraud them by just asking there opinion.

Everyone Else: Please, one last time, just tell me if you would buy a good quality kit, for the stated price range. I appreciate all those who have given me straight feedback as requested. Most likely I would need at least 10 kits to consider saying yes. So from this point on, I will only respond to the above. I'm not being an ***, I'm just doing this the way I feel is best for all involved, if this isn't acceptable I'm sorry.