Are they trying to get everyone to switch to the GEN 3/4 "small block" architecture?

4-bolt 350 ~$675 (1-piece seal)
454 ~$1,000
502 ~$1,650

6L GEN3 iron block ~$700
6L GEN4 aluminum ~$!,000

The aluminum GEN4 block seems like a huge bargain compared to the others. Obviously, someone wanting to use their old GEN1/2 parts would be one thing. But starting fresh, the GEN4 would seem the way to go.

Rich

 

I'm guessing production (and demand) is very low for the early stuff. Keep the cost high and slow the sales [and production] down and continue banging out gen3/4 blocks. Keep the new stuff flowing and concentrate resources on the new stuff.

To answer your question bluntly, obviously! It is interesting info to know, though I'm sure you can guess the answer just as well as I.

Ryan

 

Yeah, that what it looks like to me. Kind of interesting. The 502 seems like the most overpriced. Nearly the price of a far superior Dart or World Products piece.

Rich

 

The rising price of steel could also have something to do with it.

 

yeah i've been looking at this too. i agree what what has been said as far as getting people into the gen 3/4 stuff. but i think they might be trying to offset the increased cost of other pieces of the late model stuff.

i agree completely on the 502 block thing rich, i'm not sure what they were thinking when they designed it, it cant support much of an overbore has no mechanical fp boss, and the crate engines come with low tension oil rings. the only good thing i can say for it is the taller lifter bosses and oe hyd roller but you should see guys cringe at the cost of the lifters to run a lot of lift in a gen 6 setup.

 

That would assume a "plan" and I'm not sure GM thinks in subtle terms like that.

I suspect that this has more to do with what it costs GM to create these items. You would THINK that all blocks would cost roughly the same amount, varying mostly by metal type; but I suspect that there are lot of "background" factors that have more influence than we realize.

 

That what I would think also. But I am having difficulty seeing what would account for these prices if they do reflect the costs. They have to amortize the tooling, but that would have been done eons ago for the GEN1 small block. They are selling the GEN3 iron block for the same price. Is it made on the same tooling? That I could see. The 454 also has got to be on the tooling older than most of us. It uses more material, so maybe that's whay it's $1,000, ~$300+ more.

The prices that seem not to fit are the 502 and the GEN4 aluminum block. The 502 shouldn't be more expensive than the 454 if the price were simply reflecting the cost, and it seems to me that the aluminum GEN4 ought to be the most expensive by far. In the aftermarket, aluminum blocks go for ~double their cast iron counterparts. Ditto for heads. So, why is GM pricing the GEN4 so cheap and why is the 502 so expensive???

Rich

 

Thanks Rich

I need to make a phone call.Who has those prices?

 

Rich -

I'm guessing it's an overhead issue.

That's just a guess of course.
Maybe they really are setting prices to drive the market.

 

They are from the recent Scoggin-Dickey catalog. What are you looking at? If I didn't have all those GEN1/2 parts I'd be looking at that 6L aluminum block.

Rich

 

Thanks a bunch.

Need two 350's,haven't done any BB's lately.

 

Any block that is not current production somewhere in GM (Mexico, Brazil, Australia, etc.) is almost certainly being made by an outside supplier. IOW, if the last SBC/LT1 block transfer line is now shut down, any newly manufactured blocks are being done on a few machine tools, very likely CNC, and NOT inside GM. The good part MIGHT be better machining, ala Bowtie blocks.

The raw castings may also now be done by an outside foundry with GM consigning the tooling to them. Yes, recent steel scrap prices have been outrageous, so that could also be a small factor.

The GEN 4 6L block is current production for C6, GTO, CTSV, SSR, (I think) and new TrailblazerSS and maybe more to come, so it's readily available. Of course the price Rich found might be a misprint. If one of us tries to buy one for that we'll find out.

I doubt GM would low-ball price a 6 L aluminum block just to get more of them in the aftermarket field. They just have lots of them, and at a grand they are making good bucks. I'm not sure how fast block transfer lines run today, but 45 years ago 2 blocks per minute was normal from a single line. Of course that takes a couple hundred million $ worth of equipment to do that, but the price per block is fairly low.

My $.02

 

Makes sense, thanks for the info. But I am still not covinced they are neither low-balling the 6L aluminum block or "high-balling" the 502, though I agree it's hard to figure why they would do so. Large scale mass producing an Al block must be a ton cheaper than making them in lower volumes. But still, aftermarket Al blocks are ~ double their cast Fe counterparts. Since the OEM (GM) Fe blocks are in the ~$700 range, seems like I'd expect the Al version to be more like $1,400 if the incremental production costs have the same differential as in the aftermarket.

It just seems odd to me. The 502 is still in production, I wonder if it's GM or outsourced? I haven't seen one up close and personal lately to look at the casting marks, maybe that would be a way to tell. Older blocks tpically have the foundry mark on them. The Winter's Foundry "snowflake" being a classic example. Some blocks have a "GM" or a "CFD" (Central Foundry Division") stamped on them, which I always assumed meant GM had cast them. I must say I haven't looked for these marking recently, maybe I will start looking again. Anyone know if the current castings can be identified easily as to origin?

Rich

 

The 502 isn't used in a OEM vehicle application is it? If it's just the crate engine, I'll bet they are machined outside. The 8.1 block is probably enough different that they wouldn't run the 502 block on the 8.1 line.

CFD (or other GM foundry) could still be doing the 502 castings along with the 8.1. Typically a foundry would run production 8.1s (for example) and when they were caught up to engine production, they'd change over and run say 502 block castings for a few shifts. This might be a year's worth of blocks which would then go to the machining house.

It's the outside machining that makes the blocks so expensive.

As an aside, how about the price for the Z06 with the LS7 engine? $65,800 base, which is about the low end of what everyone was predicting. And that's with a "hand built" engine signed by the builders. Sure they are using millions of $ worth of high-tech wrenches, but it looks like a bargain compared to the few cars that will run with it. I wonder what the crate LS7 will cost?

According to Hot Rod magazine, all last season the CTSVs racing in SCCA used destroked LS7 engines. Using an 83.0 mm crank from a 4.8L (LR4)and the bore of the LS7, you get just about 350 cubes.

After laying waste to the field in the initial Sebring race, they got weight added, smaller intake restrictor, and about 900 rpm taken away, compared to the DOHC competition which could rev anywhere they wanted. Ironic, no?

 

have the Bowtie blocks increased in price as well, or just the factory pieces?
i really like some GMPP stuff, and have alot, but that doesnt mean ill spend 2K more instead of a dart.
makes sense to me the gen4 is cheaper, theyre still crankin em out.who was saying that alot of 01-02 camaros were getting ZO6 blocks?
gen 1 blocks and mark4 blocks were cheaper when they were in production vehicles, now theyre not.....how much would a flathead block cost ya if you could find a new one.bet its more than when they were the only show in town [inflation adjusted obviously]