Top end fpr a serious 383/396
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Who would want a racemotor on pumpgas? Anyone trying to make 700 hp on a 23* head with pumpgas 396 inches or less is gonna have JUST that. A valvetrain eating high maintenance RACE motor on pumpgas....fail to see the point in that. People want pumpgas so they can DRIVE the car. To make that kinda HP on a 23* head makes it VERY high maintenance......just the way it is.
Most people would rather have a car that RUNS/DRIVES when ever they want to cruise it and give up some HP to get that...a pumpgas trailer queen makes no sense at all.
David
Most people would rather have a car that RUNS/DRIVES when ever they want to cruise it and give up some HP to get that...a pumpgas trailer queen makes no sense at all.
David
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; Feb 8, 2007 at 12:00 AM.
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From: Long Island, NY ; Norfolk, VA
Pump gas is only a option for me if per se i wanted to gotot he local hang out w/ it.. w/ a car that eat's 5mpg on a fuel cell i think pump gas "ability" is a must.. but by no mean's would the car be raced on pump gas.. obviously it'll end in engine failure.. maintnance of a race car, albeit pump gas, race gas, alcohol, etc.. they're all intensive and expensive.. it's the nature of the beast..
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Pump gas is only a option for me if per se i wanted to gotot he local hang out w/ it.. w/ a car that eat's 5mpg on a fuel cell i think pump gas "ability" is a must.. but by no mean's would the car be raced on pump gas.. obviously it'll end in engine failure.. maintnance of a race car, albeit pump gas, race gas, alcohol, etc.. they're all intensive and expensive.. it's the nature of the beast..
I started out shooting for 750flywheel N/A but reality has set in and I think 650Flywheel N/A would be obtainable and well within what I want to spend here.
So after all the "whys?" and "just build a ______" Does anyone have any head or intake recommendations?
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From: Cinnaminson, NJ
Honestly I dont know how close AFR is to releasing these new eliminator series heads. They have been talking about it for a long, long..... long time. You may opt to wait for them but I have always had bad luck waiting for a new product to come out to complete a project.
the 215rr head can get you the numbers your looking for. And honestly I think the TFS heads are just as good if not better than some of the AFR stuff when built by a reputable head porter. 650fwhp is obtainable with a good tfs head and the bonus is that you can get them NOW! You can convert to a single plane to make your goals easier to reach but it will cost a bit more in hard parts. stick with a good LT4 intake and you can get close to that and possibly hit your marks with good tuning and intake porting.
The I was talking to AFR earlier last year about a set up for my motot. they tried to convince me to wait for the eliminator head to come out, but couldnt tell me exactly when that would be. They estimated "several months". Well they are still not out and I now have a set of TF heads on the motor. its ready to go back in the car now. Thank god i went this route or I would still have a short block with no heads
either way I think you can get there.
IMO if you thinking of converting 18* stuff to work on an LT motor you might as well just stick with a sbc.
the 215rr head can get you the numbers your looking for. And honestly I think the TFS heads are just as good if not better than some of the AFR stuff when built by a reputable head porter. 650fwhp is obtainable with a good tfs head and the bonus is that you can get them NOW! You can convert to a single plane to make your goals easier to reach but it will cost a bit more in hard parts. stick with a good LT4 intake and you can get close to that and possibly hit your marks with good tuning and intake porting.
The I was talking to AFR earlier last year about a set up for my motot. they tried to convince me to wait for the eliminator head to come out, but couldnt tell me exactly when that would be. They estimated "several months". Well they are still not out and I now have a set of TF heads on the motor. its ready to go back in the car now. Thank god i went this route or I would still have a short block with no heads
either way I think you can get there.
IMO if you thinking of converting 18* stuff to work on an LT motor you might as well just stick with a sbc.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 411
Honestly I dont know how close AFR is to releasing these new eliminator series heads. They have been talking about it for a long, long..... long time. You may opt to wait for them but I have always had bad luck waiting for a new product to come out to complete a project.
the 215rr head can get you the numbers your looking for. And honestly I think the TFS heads are just as good if not better than some of the AFR stuff when built by a reputable head porter. 650fwhp is obtainable with a good tfs head and the bonus is that you can get them NOW! You can convert to a single plane to make your goals easier to reach but it will cost a bit more in hard parts. stick with a good LT4 intake and you can get close to that and possibly hit your marks with good tuning and intake porting.
The I was talking to AFR earlier last year about a set up for my motot. they tried to convince me to wait for the eliminator head to come out, but couldnt tell me exactly when that would be. They estimated "several months". Well they are still not out and I now have a set of TF heads on the motor. its ready to go back in the car now. Thank god i went this route or I would still have a short block with no heads
either way I think you can get there.
IMO if you thinking of converting 18* stuff to work on an LT motor you might as well just stick with a sbc.
the 215rr head can get you the numbers your looking for. And honestly I think the TFS heads are just as good if not better than some of the AFR stuff when built by a reputable head porter. 650fwhp is obtainable with a good tfs head and the bonus is that you can get them NOW! You can convert to a single plane to make your goals easier to reach but it will cost a bit more in hard parts. stick with a good LT4 intake and you can get close to that and possibly hit your marks with good tuning and intake porting.
The I was talking to AFR earlier last year about a set up for my motot. they tried to convince me to wait for the eliminator head to come out, but couldnt tell me exactly when that would be. They estimated "several months". Well they are still not out and I now have a set of TF heads on the motor. its ready to go back in the car now. Thank god i went this route or I would still have a short block with no heads
either way I think you can get there.
IMO if you thinking of converting 18* stuff to work on an LT motor you might as well just stick with a sbc.
Thanks, that was the type of responce I was hoping for. I was going to get some TFS heads about a year ago but the local machinist(who races a pro-mod, and good buddies with Sonny Leonard) said there was something wrong with them, I forget what, something about not being enough material somewhere once there were ported. I'll look into them again.
According to
Jerami Patrick
AFR Sales & Technical Support
www.airflowresearch.com
(661) 257-8124 ext. 111
The elimnator heads are about 6-8 months out and they are going to start taking orders in about 2 months. But I rememeber hearing the storys before about the long waits with AFR.
So if I was to go with a single plane, which would be the least expensive and work for my application? A Accel intake, Super Victor converted, or I saw a Super Vic to EFI the other day that already had the injector holes and such cast in, what would it take to make that fit?
Thanks for the help.
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From: Cinnaminson, NJ
The TFS heads had a desgin change about a year ago that corrected many issues. The newer desgin has TFS-SBC-8 cast into them. The older desgin has TFS-SBC-7 in them. The head is a completely new desgin and cast totaly different. Very nice head if you ask me. Plenty of material to port. My TEA ported TFS heads flowed 317cfm at .700" lift.
On a side note, I have dealt with AFR thru a friend of mine who is a dealer for them. Honestly if they are telling you 6-8 months you can bet you wont see a set of heads in your hands for at least a year! I opted the find another head and the TFS heads seem to be the best head on the market for an LT1 right now. I personally belive they are better than the AFR heads and I would highly recommend them over the AFR.
But if you have your heart set on AFR's you will still probably reach your goals... only it will be 6-8 months later
On a side note, I have dealt with AFR thru a friend of mine who is a dealer for them. Honestly if they are telling you 6-8 months you can bet you wont see a set of heads in your hands for at least a year! I opted the find another head and the TFS heads seem to be the best head on the market for an LT1 right now. I personally belive they are better than the AFR heads and I would highly recommend them over the AFR.
But if you have your heart set on AFR's you will still probably reach your goals... only it will be 6-8 months later
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Posts: 6,661
From: LA (lower Alabama)
Exacley what I am going for. Have DFI to get me past the 7000rpn hurdle.
"Big heads" and "Purpose built intake": exactley why I started this thread, can you elaborate on what some good options would be?? I was thinking AFR227's and a converted but if I could find a good deal on a sheet metal piece I would.
Thanks
Troy
"Big heads" and "Purpose built intake": exactley why I started this thread, can you elaborate on what some good options would be?? I was thinking AFR227's and a converted but if I could find a good deal on a sheet metal piece I would.
Thanks
Troy
Those engines quoted above with the SB2.2 and 18* stuff were in the 800FWHP range.
Ya can do it with 23* stuff but ya need to know how to build it. Ya can't put in a HR and get it done nor with 12/1 static compression. Ya need to put your DCR on the ragged edge 9.0-9.1.The bigger the heads the easier it is.
AllPro makes a set of 23* that flow in excess of 400CFM. Sooooo don't let anybody **** ya about 23*.
Some just want to have FUN and have there *** handed to 'um every time they race something that is competive.
Not talking ricers here.
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From: Mobile, Ala..USA
#1 If you can afford All Pro's, you can afford a used 18* setup.
#2 None of the guys listed in this post got 800 fwhp on pumpgas out of an LT1 normally aspirated. As a matter of fact making 800 fwhp on pumgas with any gen1/ gen 2 smallblock of 396 inches or less is a very tall order. With ANY head. Well maybe if you put valvesprings on it every 20 miles and spin it to 8500 rpm...but well hey that ain't no streetcar is it? It's a pumpgas trailer queen.
#3 If you know of ANYONE Who has gotten 800 FWHP out of an LT1 on pumpgas with ANY head, please lead us to a link. Or to any STREET driven small block on pumpgas 396 inches or less.
#4 You have to have a RUNNING car, THAT BELONGS TO YOU!!!! Not some one that YOU KNOW, or FICTIONAL engines, cars etc...... to: race it, have fun with it or "get you *** handed to you" with it.BTW in case everyone hasn't heard..no matter how fast you are, there is ALWAYS someone faster, but your car has to ACTUALLY be on the street to find out.
#5 Knowing HOW to build it, and ACTUALLY building it are two totally different things. Only a few in this post have ACTUALLY built combos described in this thread. I will be added to the list shortly.
#6 400 cfm out of a 23* head? Not saying it doesn't exist, but I would like to see it. Does it flow that on a 4.250 bore with a 2.125 valve at .900 lift with a 270 cc port? Please show us a link to this head.We would all love to see it.
I read somewhere on this board that someone on here has a set of 15* heads that are converted that flow 370 CFM. Why would that be a viable option if there is a 400 cfm capable 23* head out there? And by the way we woud love to see pics and flowsheets. The car it's going in etc. Anyone know who they belong to?
David
#2 None of the guys listed in this post got 800 fwhp on pumpgas out of an LT1 normally aspirated. As a matter of fact making 800 fwhp on pumgas with any gen1/ gen 2 smallblock of 396 inches or less is a very tall order. With ANY head. Well maybe if you put valvesprings on it every 20 miles and spin it to 8500 rpm...but well hey that ain't no streetcar is it? It's a pumpgas trailer queen.
#3 If you know of ANYONE Who has gotten 800 FWHP out of an LT1 on pumpgas with ANY head, please lead us to a link. Or to any STREET driven small block on pumpgas 396 inches or less.
#4 You have to have a RUNNING car, THAT BELONGS TO YOU!!!! Not some one that YOU KNOW, or FICTIONAL engines, cars etc...... to: race it, have fun with it or "get you *** handed to you" with it.BTW in case everyone hasn't heard..no matter how fast you are, there is ALWAYS someone faster, but your car has to ACTUALLY be on the street to find out.
#5 Knowing HOW to build it, and ACTUALLY building it are two totally different things. Only a few in this post have ACTUALLY built combos described in this thread. I will be added to the list shortly.
#6 400 cfm out of a 23* head? Not saying it doesn't exist, but I would like to see it. Does it flow that on a 4.250 bore with a 2.125 valve at .900 lift with a 270 cc port? Please show us a link to this head.We would all love to see it.
I read somewhere on this board that someone on here has a set of 15* heads that are converted that flow 370 CFM. Why would that be a viable option if there is a 400 cfm capable 23* head out there? And by the way we woud love to see pics and flowsheets. The car it's going in etc. Anyone know who they belong to?
David
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; Feb 8, 2007 at 08:59 PM.
Thread Starter
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Posts: 411
#1 If you can afford All Pro's, you can afford a used 18* setup.
#2 None of the guys listed in this post got 800 fwhp on pumpgas out of an LT1 normally aspirated. As a matter of fact making 800 fwhp on pumgas with any gen1/ gen 2 smallblock of 396 inches or less is a very tall order. With ANY head. Well maybe if you put valvesprings on it every 20 miles and spin it to 8500 rpm...but well hey that ain't no streetcar is it? It's a pumpgas trailer queen.
Who's trying to make 800fwhp? I started out asking if 750 was possible and for me it's just too much hassle so 650fwhp is the new goal
#3 If you know of ANYONE Who has gotten 800 FWHP out of an LT1 on pumpgas with ANY head, please lead us to a link. Or to any STREET driven small block on pumpgas 396 inches or less.
#4 You have to have a RUNNING car, THAT BELONGS TO YOU!!!! Not some one that YOU KNOW, or FICTIONAL engines, cars etc...... to: race it, have fun with it or "get you *** handed to you" with it.BTW in case everyone hasn't heard..no matter how fast you are, there is ALWAYS someone faster, but your car has to ACTUALLY be on the street to find out.
I have a car that runs
And yes somebody will always be faster, I'm not going for the fastest anything, just a fun car to race on the weekends and cruise around with my kids occasionaly
#5 Knowing HOW to build it, and ACTUALLY building it are two totally different things. Only a few in this post have ACTUALLY built combos described in this thread. I will be added to the list shortly.
#6 400 cfm out of a 23* head? Not saying it doesn't exist, but I would like to see it. Does it flow that on a 4.250 bore with a 2.125 valve at .900 lift with a 270 cc port? Please show us a link to this head.We would all love to see it.
I think he was talking about the RR245sp-23 from All-Pro but I can't find the flow sheet for them anywhere.
I read somewhere on this board that someone on here has a set of 15* heads that are converted that flow 370 CFM. Why would that be a viable option if there is a 400 cfm capable 23* head out there? And by the way we woud love to see pics and flowsheets. The car it's going in etc. Anyone know who they belong to?
David
#2 None of the guys listed in this post got 800 fwhp on pumpgas out of an LT1 normally aspirated. As a matter of fact making 800 fwhp on pumgas with any gen1/ gen 2 smallblock of 396 inches or less is a very tall order. With ANY head. Well maybe if you put valvesprings on it every 20 miles and spin it to 8500 rpm...but well hey that ain't no streetcar is it? It's a pumpgas trailer queen.
Who's trying to make 800fwhp? I started out asking if 750 was possible and for me it's just too much hassle so 650fwhp is the new goal
#3 If you know of ANYONE Who has gotten 800 FWHP out of an LT1 on pumpgas with ANY head, please lead us to a link. Or to any STREET driven small block on pumpgas 396 inches or less.
#4 You have to have a RUNNING car, THAT BELONGS TO YOU!!!! Not some one that YOU KNOW, or FICTIONAL engines, cars etc...... to: race it, have fun with it or "get you *** handed to you" with it.BTW in case everyone hasn't heard..no matter how fast you are, there is ALWAYS someone faster, but your car has to ACTUALLY be on the street to find out.
I have a car that runs
And yes somebody will always be faster, I'm not going for the fastest anything, just a fun car to race on the weekends and cruise around with my kids occasionaly#5 Knowing HOW to build it, and ACTUALLY building it are two totally different things. Only a few in this post have ACTUALLY built combos described in this thread. I will be added to the list shortly.
#6 400 cfm out of a 23* head? Not saying it doesn't exist, but I would like to see it. Does it flow that on a 4.250 bore with a 2.125 valve at .900 lift with a 270 cc port? Please show us a link to this head.We would all love to see it.
I think he was talking about the RR245sp-23 from All-Pro but I can't find the flow sheet for them anywhere.
I read somewhere on this board that someone on here has a set of 15* heads that are converted that flow 370 CFM. Why would that be a viable option if there is a 400 cfm capable 23* head out there? And by the way we woud love to see pics and flowsheets. The car it's going in etc. Anyone know who they belong to?
David
Again I know I won't be the fastest "what ever" I just want to be faster than I am now, a nice 396 with a sweet Head Cam intake combo and a ****ton of nitous outta get it there.
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[
Thanks I was going to run about 9.0 on the DCR, I guess I will get my *** handed to me when I run a SB2.2 or what ever, but I'll be hauling *** when it happens so who cares
AFR-ProAction-Brodex.
Those engines quoted above with the SB2.2 and 18* stuff were in the 800FWHP range.
Ya can do it with 23* stuff but ya need to know how to build it. Ya can't put in a HR and get it done nor with 12/1 static compression. Ya need to put your DCR on the ragged edge 9.0-9.1.The bigger the heads the easier it is.
AllPro makes a set of 23* that flow in excess of 400CFM. Sooooo don't let anybody **** ya about 23*.
Some just want to have FUN and have there *** handed to 'um every time they race something that is competive.
Not talking ricers here.
Those engines quoted above with the SB2.2 and 18* stuff were in the 800FWHP range.
Ya can do it with 23* stuff but ya need to know how to build it. Ya can't put in a HR and get it done nor with 12/1 static compression. Ya need to put your DCR on the ragged edge 9.0-9.1.The bigger the heads the easier it is.
AllPro makes a set of 23* that flow in excess of 400CFM. Sooooo don't let anybody **** ya about 23*.
Some just want to have FUN and have there *** handed to 'um every time they race something that is competive.
Not talking ricers here.
Thanks I was going to run about 9.0 on the DCR, I guess I will get my *** handed to me when I run a SB2.2 or what ever, but I'll be hauling *** when it happens so who cares
