Long time no see everyone....
If this is the wrong place to post this I appologize, i dont know where else to post it since its not a lt1 or ls1 thing...
Well the t56 conversion i bought got lost in shipping but it was insured so ill get my money back. Since this has began i now have a friend who can 'hook me up' with a variety of motors out of dirt track cars (street stock, pure stock, late model, etc mostly built 355's, 383's, or 406) for pretty cheap. So iam thinking of buying a third gen without a motor or trans and making a street rod out of it using one of those motors OR now this is where you all come in, build one myself.
Iam not the brightest about all this so bare with me. Iam thinking of going for a carbed all forged 355 or 383 sbc, preferably N/A and am shooting for about 600hp at the crank. If i get a motor from my friend it would have the horsepower no problem but also would require race fuel. So iam wonder if its possible to get those kinds of numbers N/A on pump gas on a 383? Would possibly going FI be the answer or would it be cheaper to just run a high-comp race fuel N/A engine instead? The motor can be as radical as anything out there iam not going to be driving it very much and it would be hooked to a manual trans. If i go thru with it this car will be a saturday night mustang beater basicaly, not a daily driver at all. Ill have more specific and 'technical' questions depending on the answers I get here.
Thanks for any/all input!!


Aaron

 

Some free opinions, worth every cent!

Stay away from a race fuel setup. Obtaining, transporting, and storing the fuel are issues. Cost is another - two of the shop race cars run C16, which is already close to $500/drum and it's going (way) up. Your range will be limited to how far you can go on 1/2 a tank. Even for a weekend cruiser, seems like a big hassle to me.

Start with the most cubes you can. Get the best heads you can - moderate sized ports that flow really well. Use a low rise, single plane intake and a "small" vacuum secondary carb (850-900CFM). An agressive HR cam will be nicer for the street than a solid roller, IMHO. 500hp is a lot more reasonable than 600. If you really want 600+hp, a power adder is the best way to get there. 600NA hp is going to be VERY expensive and not easy to "tame" for enjoyable street use.

Rich

 

I don't know if your looking for a LT1 or not but i am selling a 383 shortblock w/o the cam. I put the best parts that i thought it needed...some parts are overkill but anywasys i was planing on it making 500 hp with the right set of heads on it. It has never been run. I have sheet metal intake for it also. Pm me if you are interested. I would also recomend staying away from race gas if you plan on driving it on the street some.

 

My advice?

Determine what your TRUE budget is and the timeframe in which you want to complete the projects.

If this can sit in a garage and it doesn't matter if it takes 10 years, then you can spend a lot more.
If you want it done for next season or the season after, then sit down and determine what you can REALLY afford to spend.

Once you have that number, set aside 1/3 for all the crap that you wont think of until the project is halfway done.

The other 2/3 is your TRUE budget. Once you have that number, you can start planning.


BTW, if you have or can spend 10 grand, just buy a World Products 454 small block. It's rated at 600hp but from what I hear nobody has ever seen one produce that number; it's always more.

 

Yeah, the WP "Limited Edition" 454 SB is a damn nice "crate" motor. At $11K it isn't cheap though. If you are willing to "settle" for 450-500hp you can start with an OEM block and spend a bit more than 1/2 that much. You pays your money and takes your choice.

I also agree with your budget remarks but would even state them more strongly: you should take your initial budget estimate and increase it by AT LEAST 50%, up to 100% for a true "total cost".

Rich

 

Hmm ok so ill deff. stay away from race fuel thanks
I was originaly wanting to do mod my car like i said but figured a third gen with a sbc would be cheaper...
Iam very limited on my budget which is making this difficult, ill have about $1400 from the tranny but i was planning on trading my friend my 4wheeler (97 yamaha banshee) for one of his motors then just spending the winter gathering money for a tranny, rear end, etc etc etc.
If i'd put a 500+hp motor in my 94 Z i'd need a upgraded tranny (will buy a t56) obviously, and a rear end to be safe right? Now iam running a stock 10bolt with a eaton posi and 4:10's. My thing is the LT1's seem so expensive not to mention hard to work on compmared to a regular sbc and a third gen camaro....i may be wrong but thats just how it seems.
As for driveability, there is a guy with a supercharged mustang running on methanol putting down 730hp that he drives on the street no problem which supprised me but he said its not all that bad??
Basicaly i want to build a drag car capable of driving on the street the cheapest way possible without cutting corners. I can get a third gen without motor or tranny for like $200 and put a motor, tranny, rear end under it pretty cheap but would the work be worth it or just buy a lt1 or build mine up?
Sorry for all the dumb questions iam just trying to figure out what iam going to do asap because i want to have ( A ) car done by next summer...

 

With all due respect, and not trying to insult you; based on the $$ figures you mentioned, I don't think you can afford a 750hp car. Not right now anyway.


I suggest that you focus on building the best/strongest bottom end you can afford, so that you can go back LATER and add more power without worrying about the bottom end.


I have a few suggestions along those lines and you can be sure that the others will have suggestions of their own.



What follows is only my opinion and should not be considered wisdom down from Mt Sinai:

I think the general consensus around here is that the Callies Dragonslayer is an excellent overall value and a good product. JE & SRP are good choices in pistons, and Mahle has a following as well due in part to their very precisely made pistons with very flat lands. Rods tend to be controversial to a limited extent. I think that most people around here would agree that the Eagle H-Beam is a good overall value and a nice strong piece. There are many other choices in both I & H beam, each with their own pros & cons.
For myself, I am planning to use the new PM rods from Howards on my very next engine. There isn't a large pool of people using them yet, so it's a slightly controversial choice; but I personally have seen enough to convince me that they are a good choice. However, that's for MY engine with MY money. YOU may wish to wait for more information to come out about them.

I also suggest that you strongly consider planning to go to a supercharger or turbo later on, because if you want to make much more than 500hp on the STREET, it's the most efficient way in the long run. That means keeping your compression relatiely low.

You're in luck here because your LT1 heads have pretty small chambers. 54cc if I'm not mistaken. That means you can keep a decent compression NOW and later on buy a set of Trick Flow LTx heads with the 64cc chambers that will drop your compression somewhat for a blower. Lloyd Elliot sells ported versions of these and has had favorable things to say about them.
This paragraph is only a suggestion and it is only one of many choices open to you.

 

yeah i know iam a poor bastard lol nah i understand. Iam not shooting for 700 anyway i was just stating a fact about this mustang pushing 730+ and being streetable.
What motor would you all suggest to turbo or supercharge later on? Like a 355 or 383 perhaps? Iam still deciding rather to build my lt1 or by a traditional small block and go from there on a diff. car (ie-third gen camaro).

 

ahh the third gen. this is just my opinion also. they are a little heavy, and not a very strong body. If you do plan on building one rearend, subframes, and good cage are a must for that power level. I know this is a camaro website, and this is kinda becoming a fad thing but the little S10 trucks are lighter and easier to work on and just as cheap.

engine wise I say go with a first gen stroker and order a cataloge from
http://www.primediapowerpages.com/cg...atalogs/100222

they have good prices on several parts. I also would build a, H-beam all forged bottom end. Scat cranks and rods seem to be a good value and nice pieces.

as far as streetability I would have to say turbo's but they are probably the hardest to tune and most exspencive. although I have seen people build turbo set up for realy cheap. check the net. search under building turbo setup or home built turbo kits.

with forced induction engines you can run smaller cams less compression and have an overall more streetable engine. with turbo's you can run around on pump gas at like 5 to 10lbs of boost depending on the engine, and then go to the track fill up with race fuel and pump the boost up to make some realy nice power. turn it back down and drive home.

I'm shure some other people will respond to things that I left out.

 

I think you could get a rolling chassis from a 4th gen for cheap as well and you start with a better platform, it looks better, newer parts, less rust and damage, slightly stiffer (but still needs subframes).

Keep in mind that you will need to drop a minimum of $1,000 for suspension parts in this chassis, and that doesn't include a cage or rear end or install cost. And that just gets you a decently functional suspension, bare minimum, not including shocks and springs, etc.

 

Wow thanks for all the helpfull posts!!! Ive been doing alot of research both online and in person talking to some of my friends who have the 500+hp mustangs and whatnot. Ive already figured on aftermarket suspension, rear end, tranny, etc but iam mostly trying to figure out what car and what motor iam wanting to use first. Ive already ordered a catalogue from competition products by the way, very nice, highly recommanded
Iam getting alot of ideas thrown at me from local engine builders i never knew existed untill now as well. There is one saying he could build me a 383 LT1 that would make atleast 500hp on pump gas N/A, another who builds like i said dirt track motors (race gas though for them ) Just a quick question, would a stock t56 be worth bolting to a 500hp motor without strengthening it first? Would it last at all or would i be better off to just build the tranny then bolt it up if I were to use my z28? I guess i just have to make some decisions and see what i can afford because i dont want to cut corner and have something be unsafe or blow up ya know...
I cant thank you all enough for your advice on all of this, its been incredibly helpfull!!!!

 

i as well am not the most experienced engine builder, im workin on my first 383 stroker. my suggestion is look into a rebuild. although the lt1 engines are nice, they are not a starter motor. with the amount of computer programming, electronic everything. its just not a fun way to begin. my suggestion go with a late 80's(after 87) small block. using something like vortec heads can give you good power, remember no matter how much people praise aluminium heads for cooling off faster, heat makes power, go cast iron. in my i also went with the gm hot cam kit, another good idea for power, however it also comes at a cost, the rockers are a 1.6 instead of a 1.5, means tall valve covers. this mixed with the vortec heads(being center bolt) can become a problem money wise. and if you are on a small budget even 500 hp can be an accomplishment to get to. but you also cant forget about torque, this is one thing i am surprised has not been brought up, hp alone wont win a race. my 85 camaro will beat a 2004 vette, because it lacks the proper torque, even though the hp is slightly higher the camaro takes it off the line. just remember to play things smart, dont go for a crate engine, they arent broken in at all, which makes it longer on the break in process(500 miles with no hot rodding full oil change, then driving it a little rougher 1500 miles another full oil change) you dont wanna break your new toy right after you get it. the suggestion of a supercharger/turbocharger is a good idea but be wary of the type of pistons you use. they must be i believe its forged, dont quote me, but look into it. and if all else fails, you can get a 100-125 hp shot of nitrous through a stroker motor without havin to use a nitrous cam. hopefully i gave ya some help. john.