JB I think he's talking about a Cup oil pan, F1 might be understandable, but Cup?

 

i woulud personally be for the lighter one.

speed is an excellent defense as is agility.

besides, you can have 2 boats for the same metal!

i guess its barry sanders vs walter payton kinda deal. although i hate to resort to football. what a terrible "sport"

 

Yeah, I see that now.

$18,000 for a Cup pan. Hmmm... what if you were to line the botttom with a few hundred pounds of heavy metal (tungsten). Might help the CG. Price seems about right.

 

yeah im sorry i am talking about like nascar stuff ....

 

Me, too.

There is so much those guys do that we don't know about...and maybe NASCAR doesn't know about. Every once in awhile somebody in the industry says something in conversation, and a year or so later the results of that are banned. You wonder how long it was being used.

NASCAR traction control is very interesting to me.

 

friend of mine is an ex nascar guy. he happened to imply strongly they are definately using that stuff

 

Yep fran was talking NASCAR. The pans are also divided into seperate individual cylinder pairs. I guess they are pretty expensive right now!

 

This is some of what I've read.
According to several sources, "F1 engines are not made from any exotic materials". I guess this depends on your definition of exotic?

The rule for next year, 06, is V8 config., the last I read.

Towards the end of last year Renault did change from the 110*? engine to the 72* because of the problems mentioned.

Didn't Ferrari have a flat 16, boxer engine? And I thought I remembered Brahbam or someone having an "H" 16?

As for the F1 engine oil pans, they are an integrated part of the engine, not just stuck on, and must be extremely strong, as does the entire engine. As it is the main component of the chassis with the drivers shell attached to the front and the rear suspension, wing, etc. attached to the rear.

Never thought about "not", having any throttles! This stuff really makes you think outside of the "box".

All F1 cars come in under the required weight, so that the engineers can add it to the chassis where needed.

 

Here are some quick specs from the 2000 Ferrari Tipo 049 engine. Who know's what the hell they're using now!

Configuration: 90-degree V-10
Displacement: 2997cc
Bore: 96mm
Stroke: 41.4mm
Compression: 12.0:1
Length: 615mm
Width: 597.6mm
Height: 365.5mm
Weight: Less than 234 pounds
Valvetrain: DOHC with pneumatic valvesprings; 4 valves per cylinder
Valve angle: 25 degrees in transverse section; 6 degrees in logitudinal section
Fuel: FIA-spec Shell fuel
Fuel system: Magneti Marelli digital fuel injection; one injector/cylinder; 10 bar
Ignition: Magneti Marelli coil-on-plug
Oil scavenging: 11 pumps operating at 35.5% of engine rpm; 1 at 32.5%
Block: Investment-cast aluminum, 7-percent silicon
Liners: Wet; aluminum/Nickasil coated
Heads: Sand-cast aluminum
Crank: Vacuum-cast extruded billet steel; six main bearings
Valves: 40.4mm titanium intake; 33mm titanium exhaust w/ceramic coating
Pistons: Mahle forged aluminum
Rods: Titanium

Output: 817hp w/o air scoop; 866hp w/air scoop at 17,500 rpm
Torque: 253 lb/ft at 15,500 rpm
BMEP at peak power: 13.4 bar
BMEP at peak torque: 14.2 bar
Mean piston speed at 18,000 rpm: 81.36 feet/second
Max piston acceleration: 8,890 grams

All quoted information is from this book:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...47841?v=glance

If you're into this sort of thing, you need to get it! It covers not just engines, but the entire car. The pictures are just astonishing too. Astonishing because the parts of the motor are so similar to what we're used to seeing, but at the same time so different. For example, the piston skirts are almost non-existent. Picture a JE Flyweight piston on crack and you get the idea. There's just enough material to support the rings, and that's it.

 

Hey, my car has more hp (and a TON more torque) than an F1 motor! And what in the heck is "vacuum-cast extruded billet steel"???

Rich

 

I especially like the "delayed throttle". When the driver goes to Wide Open Throttle (WOT) with the pedal, the throttles on one bank are delayed going to WOT behind the other bank by a number of degrees, I think. That amount could be variable. The effect would be to lower the torque in the midrange as the revs come up, like out of a slow corner probably as part of the traction control. IOW, by programming the delay you effectively shape the torque curve dynamically! Damn, I like that.

When the throttle is closed the next time, the system resets and the next time the delay is used, the opposite bank delays. Sweet.

Witha a 3.780" bore and 1.630" stroke, and maybe a 3.3" rod, there's not much room for a piston skirt.

 

If your engine makes peak power at 6500 vs. 17,500 for the F1, and you were both geared for 140 mph at power peak, the F1 engined car would have about 2.7 times more gear ratio to multiply the torque. So, assuming the same tire diameter, and the same hp, the wheel torque at power peak would be equal. Even with different tire diameters, hp peak at the same speed means the same thrust force at the tire.

I'll bet the F1 drivetrain has a lower % loss than a 9 inch.

As for peak torque, the 2.7x more gear still applies, so that's more like 680 lb-ft at the equivalent vehicle speed. Curiously, 15,500 rpm / 2.7 is about 57-5800 rpm torque peak. I don't recall yours, Rich, but that may be close.

Of course F1 uses 7 speed transmissions, so they keep the engine in a reasonable rpm band.



As far as "vacuum-cast extruded billet steel", there's a chance that's a misnomer. Aerospace grade steels are vacuum melted, rather than in air, to keep impurities out. Usually they are also remelted in a vacuum or "double vacuum" melted. Steel starts out as a cast ingot, so that could be the meaning of vacuum cast. Stuff like turbine wheels are also vacuum cast from aerospace alloys, but they aren't "billets" or bars, they are near-final shapes.

Typically steel isn't extruded, but it is either hot or cold "rolled" to shape it into a bar or cold "drawn" thru a die. The steel sizes used for cranks (even small diameter F1 cranks) are typically rolled. Extruding, which is similar to "drawing" is used for non-ferrous metals like aluminum.

My best guess is that what the author meant, was that (double) vacuum melted and rolled alloy steel bars (billets) are used to manufacture the crankshaft. This is consistent with how many/most highend cranks are being produced. No mention is made of the alloy or heat treatment, which is the key.

My $.02

 

You just now figured this out?

 

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/i...9-066D7ABBC4AD

Have a new video for the collection.

Bret

 

Holy christ, you could fry an elephant on those headers!

If my exhaust was glowing that much, I'd be running for the hills.

I wonder if that engine was loaded? There seems to be a connection
on the left rear axle, but I can't be sure. It sure spooled up in a hurry.

How about that balance. The chassis barely moves as the engine cycles.

Insert jaw drop smiley here >