Rebuild every year due to billet connecting rods!?
09-22-2002, 11:24 AM
#1
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Rebuild every year due to billet connecting rods!?
I'll make this short and sweet guys-
I got billet connecting rods because I was under the impression that they were stronger than forged-
I grabbed them and now someone is telling me that it was a bad idea because i have to replace them every year because they stretch
is this true?
I got billet connecting rods because I was under the impression that they were stronger than forged-
I grabbed them and now someone is telling me that it was a bad idea because i have to replace them every year because they stretch
is this true?
09-22-2002, 12:52 PM
#2
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Location: Vista, Ca
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Re: Rebuild every year due to billet connecting rods!?
Generally, billet doesn't mean that they are any stronger. All billet means is that they're in a semi-finished state. The base billet could be forged or cast, steel, iron or aluminum.
You haven't given enough information to answer your question. Who made the rods? Material? Forged billet?
You haven't given enough information to answer your question. Who made the rods? Material? Forged billet?
09-22-2002, 12:57 PM
#3
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Re: Re: Rebuild every year due to billet connecting rods!?
Originally posted by nuke61
Generally, billet doesn't mean that they are any stronger. All billet means is that they're in a semi-finished state. The base billet could be forged or cast, steel, iron or aluminum.
You haven't given enough information to answer your question. Who made the rods? Material? Forged billet?
Generally, billet doesn't mean that they are any stronger. All billet means is that they're in a semi-finished state. The base billet could be forged or cast, steel, iron or aluminum.
You haven't given enough information to answer your question. Who made the rods? Material? Forged billet?
he said that he was putting them in his blown 383 and they can hold over 700hp
at the time i though billet was billet- no forged/ iron etc...
they weren't the same color as my forged pistons and my machine shop siad "nice rods"
09-22-2002, 03:23 PM
#4
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Location: Plymouth, MI
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Design and quality of the material, heat treating and machining determine strength of a connecting rod. What you really need is fatigue strength. An infinite fatigue life means it was designed be able to withstand 10 million cycles at its intended load. I don't ever recall anyone in the aftermarket talk about any of this, other than the materal.
Assuming the design, material selection, heat treating and machining are done properly the heavier the connecting rod the stronger. Material strength is determined by alloy and heat treatment. Forging usually requires different alloys then billet, but either can be designed and processed to be equal in strength. No one ever tells you their processes either because they are so removed from the manufacturing process they don't know or just aren't capable of understanding. Often times the reseller doesn't even know who forged or machined them. If you go with rods from someone like Oliver or Carillo. They will know the entire process but you will PAY!
If you are pushing the engine extremely hard the big end will eventually get egg shaped. This can be from designing everything to be light weight (just strong enought to last the race or a season) or from detonation. Detonation is the usual cause of bottom end failures.
If your running the billet rods on the street they will last for ever providing the are good quality (as described above) and don't see detonation. If your strictly racing and are trying to keep up with the professionals (with deep pockets and setting records) they will have to be checked often as will all other parts. If your planning to run in the 11's or so, don't worry, just watch out for detonation.
Billets rods a usually heavier than stock rods requiring the engine must be rebalanced. DO NOT to let them drill the balancer or flywheel to do the balancing. If you ever need to replace them (I did) the engine will be out of balance.
Assuming the design, material selection, heat treating and machining are done properly the heavier the connecting rod the stronger. Material strength is determined by alloy and heat treatment. Forging usually requires different alloys then billet, but either can be designed and processed to be equal in strength. No one ever tells you their processes either because they are so removed from the manufacturing process they don't know or just aren't capable of understanding. Often times the reseller doesn't even know who forged or machined them. If you go with rods from someone like Oliver or Carillo. They will know the entire process but you will PAY!
If you are pushing the engine extremely hard the big end will eventually get egg shaped. This can be from designing everything to be light weight (just strong enought to last the race or a season) or from detonation. Detonation is the usual cause of bottom end failures.
If your running the billet rods on the street they will last for ever providing the are good quality (as described above) and don't see detonation. If your strictly racing and are trying to keep up with the professionals (with deep pockets and setting records) they will have to be checked often as will all other parts. If your planning to run in the 11's or so, don't worry, just watch out for detonation.
Billets rods a usually heavier than stock rods requiring the engine must be rebalanced. DO NOT to let them drill the balancer or flywheel to do the balancing. If you ever need to replace them (I did) the engine will be out of balance.
09-22-2002, 03:39 PM
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Location: Plymouth, MI
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One more thing, RPM.
The higher the engine is reved the higher the load by the square of the rpm. Also heaver rods add to the loads. Also design the engine for reasonable rpm's. If your building it for the street 6500 max unless its pro street.
The higher the engine is reved the higher the load by the square of the rpm. Also heaver rods add to the loads. Also design the engine for reasonable rpm's. If your building it for the street 6500 max unless its pro street.
09-22-2002, 03:47 PM
#7
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Originally posted by 454Corvair
One more thing, RPM.
The higher the engine is reved the higher the load by the square of the rpm. Also heaver rods add to the loads. Also design the engine for reasonable rpm's. If your building it for the street 6500 max unless its pro street.
One more thing, RPM.
The higher the engine is reved the higher the load by the square of the rpm. Also heaver rods add to the loads. Also design the engine for reasonable rpm's. If your building it for the street 6500 max unless its pro street.
09-22-2002, 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by Rob O
Are these billet aluminum rods?
Are these billet aluminum rods?
at the time i didn't know there was a differance
i was young and dumb
they weren't aluim colored though
09-22-2002, 08:11 PM
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If their aluminum they won't have an I or H cross section shape to the beam and they will be very big/thick everywhere.
Are your rods I or H beam? (stock are I beam)
Do they have cap screws or nuts?
Are there any numbers or symbols on them?
How much heavier are they than stock ones?
Usually Billet rods are pretty beefy. As long as you have a good machine shop checking things over things you should be fine. Beware good shops and machinist are hard to find and are not cheap.
I had a few blocks and rods sets ruined by bad equipment/machinists. The only reason in knew was because I was a toolmaker at the time an had/have the equipment to check their work.
Good luck.
Are your rods I or H beam? (stock are I beam)
Do they have cap screws or nuts?
Are there any numbers or symbols on them?
How much heavier are they than stock ones?
Usually Billet rods are pretty beefy. As long as you have a good machine shop checking things over things you should be fine. Beware good shops and machinist are hard to find and are not cheap.
I had a few blocks and rods sets ruined by bad equipment/machinists. The only reason in knew was because I was a toolmaker at the time an had/have the equipment to check their work.
Good luck.
09-22-2002, 09:46 PM
#11
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Originally posted by 454Corvair
If their aluminum they won't have an I or H cross section shape to the beam and they will be very big/thick everywhere.
Are your rods I or H beam? (stock are I beam)
If their aluminum they won't have an I or H cross section shape to the beam and they will be very big/thick everywhere.
Are your rods I or H beam? (stock are I beam)
I beam
Do they have cap screws or nuts?
Are there any numbers or symbols on them?
How much heavier are they than stock ones?
Usually Billet rods are pretty beefy. As long as you have a good machine shop checking things over things you should be fine. Beware good shops and machinist are hard to find and are not cheap.
I had a few blocks and rods sets ruined by bad equipment/machinists. The only reason in knew was because I was a toolmaker at the time an had/have the equipment to check their work.
Good luck.
I had a few blocks and rods sets ruined by bad equipment/machinists. The only reason in knew was because I was a toolmaker at the time an had/have the equipment to check their work.
Good luck.
thanks
wadya think!
they also weren't that shiney aluim color
they seemed to be an iron color
edit: hey i'll be living in northville and working in livonia in about 3weeks! great! you can help me with my fuel pump and lowering springs and installing rods again!
umm i assembled the whole motor (well with my friends dad) at their repair shop where they had ample tools and a good work enviroment
all my tools are at home in NY
Last edited by treyZ28; 09-22-2002 at 09:49 PM.
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