Making springs last on the street with high lift cams??
12-15-2005, 07:58 AM
#16
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Double Oak TX
Posts: 752
Re: Making springs last on the street with high lift cams??
Originally Posted by INTMD8
Yes, it does sound interesting.
Could work on Denny McLain's car too
1.84 160lbs closed
1.21 410lbs open (.630 lift, and .060 to coil bind)
Could work on Denny McLain's car too
1.84 160lbs closed
1.21 410lbs open (.630 lift, and .060 to coil bind)
Boy oh boy....... the good ol advanced list! You guys are great.
It's going to take a bit for me to digest all this. I believe (will double check) the valves are .100 longer so I may be good to go with a few options. The beehives sound interesting but let me bounce all this off my partner in crime and see what he thinks.
Again... thanks everyone.
12-17-2005, 11:11 AM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In a house by the bay
Posts: 2,985
Re: Making springs last on the street with high lift cams??
1. Use spring oilers
You can do that two ways... use a set of valve covers with the plumbing or get a set of T&D shafts with the optional spring oilers machined into the rockers. I'd suggest the later.
2. Use rockers with a low mass moment of inertia
The "lightweight" and "ultra light" options from Jesel and T&D are good choices.
3. Use lightweight valves.
Ferrera hollow stem valves would get the vote over titanium in terms of bang-for-the-buck.
4. Lightweight springs & retainers
I think the beehive would be my choice for a street engine that turns ~7k. The Isky Toolrooms (made by PSI) are a great spring but I'd try the beehive and see how it holds up. I've been pleasantly surprised with them. My only personal experience being a 355 put together for a friend but they only lost ~8 lbs after cycling. The camshaft in that one is probably as radical as the one you're using and the springs have been going strong for probably 5k miles now. Ferrera hollow-stems and T&D "lightweight" rockers with oilers are being used in that one.
I saw probably 20% more spring life in my BBC by going to spring oilers. Same springs, same everything... just the oilers. That was 9 years ago and everything I build now (maximum street) gets oilers. If you go to a shaft setup like the T&D's then of course you have to ditch guideplates. You will want as stiff a pushrod as you can get. I like to use Manton tapered rods but there are a number of good ones on the market. Any flex in the pushrod will cost you some valvetrain control, which increases the workload on the valvespring.
Just my 2 cents.
-Mindgame
You can do that two ways... use a set of valve covers with the plumbing or get a set of T&D shafts with the optional spring oilers machined into the rockers. I'd suggest the later.
2. Use rockers with a low mass moment of inertia
The "lightweight" and "ultra light" options from Jesel and T&D are good choices.
3. Use lightweight valves.
Ferrera hollow stem valves would get the vote over titanium in terms of bang-for-the-buck.
4. Lightweight springs & retainers
I think the beehive would be my choice for a street engine that turns ~7k. The Isky Toolrooms (made by PSI) are a great spring but I'd try the beehive and see how it holds up. I've been pleasantly surprised with them. My only personal experience being a 355 put together for a friend but they only lost ~8 lbs after cycling. The camshaft in that one is probably as radical as the one you're using and the springs have been going strong for probably 5k miles now. Ferrera hollow-stems and T&D "lightweight" rockers with oilers are being used in that one.
I saw probably 20% more spring life in my BBC by going to spring oilers. Same springs, same everything... just the oilers. That was 9 years ago and everything I build now (maximum street) gets oilers. If you go to a shaft setup like the T&D's then of course you have to ditch guideplates. You will want as stiff a pushrod as you can get. I like to use Manton tapered rods but there are a number of good ones on the market. Any flex in the pushrod will cost you some valvetrain control, which increases the workload on the valvespring.
Just my 2 cents.
-Mindgame
12-17-2005, 01:34 PM
#18
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Double Oak TX
Posts: 752
Re: Making springs last on the street with high lift cams??
Originally Posted by Mindgame
1. Use spring oilers
You can do that two ways... use a set of valve covers with the plumbing or get a set of T&D shafts with the optional spring oilers machined into the rockers. I'd suggest the later.
2. Use rockers with a low mass moment of inertia
The "lightweight" and "ultra light" options from Jesel and T&D are good choices.
3. Use lightweight valves.
Ferrera hollow stem valves would get the vote over titanium in terms of bang-for-the-buck.
4. Lightweight springs & retainers
I think the beehive would be my choice for a street engine that turns ~7k. The Isky Toolrooms (made by PSI) are a great spring but I'd try the beehive and see how it holds up. I've been pleasantly surprised with them. My only personal experience being a 355 put together for a friend but they only lost ~8 lbs after cycling. The camshaft in that one is probably as radical as the one you're using and the springs have been going strong for probably 5k miles now. Ferrera hollow-stems and T&D "lightweight" rockers with oilers are being used in that one.
I saw probably 20% more spring life in my BBC by going to spring oilers. Same springs, same everything... just the oilers. That was 9 years ago and everything I build now (maximum street) gets oilers. If you go to a shaft setup like the T&D's then of course you have to ditch guideplates. You will want as stiff a pushrod as you can get. I like to use Manton tapered rods but there are a number of good ones on the market. Any flex in the pushrod will cost you some valvetrain control, which increases the workload on the valvespring.
Just my 2 cents.
-Mindgame
You can do that two ways... use a set of valve covers with the plumbing or get a set of T&D shafts with the optional spring oilers machined into the rockers. I'd suggest the later.
2. Use rockers with a low mass moment of inertia
The "lightweight" and "ultra light" options from Jesel and T&D are good choices.
3. Use lightweight valves.
Ferrera hollow stem valves would get the vote over titanium in terms of bang-for-the-buck.
4. Lightweight springs & retainers
I think the beehive would be my choice for a street engine that turns ~7k. The Isky Toolrooms (made by PSI) are a great spring but I'd try the beehive and see how it holds up. I've been pleasantly surprised with them. My only personal experience being a 355 put together for a friend but they only lost ~8 lbs after cycling. The camshaft in that one is probably as radical as the one you're using and the springs have been going strong for probably 5k miles now. Ferrera hollow-stems and T&D "lightweight" rockers with oilers are being used in that one.
I saw probably 20% more spring life in my BBC by going to spring oilers. Same springs, same everything... just the oilers. That was 9 years ago and everything I build now (maximum street) gets oilers. If you go to a shaft setup like the T&D's then of course you have to ditch guideplates. You will want as stiff a pushrod as you can get. I like to use Manton tapered rods but there are a number of good ones on the market. Any flex in the pushrod will cost you some valvetrain control, which increases the workload on the valvespring.
Just my 2 cents.
-Mindgame
GM is using Titanium intake valves on the new ZO6 reving it to 7000 and offering a warranty. As usual.... GM probably know something. Mass may be the secret as I'm using 2.08 valves but we'll try the easy fix first.
Thanks!!
12-17-2005, 02:43 PM
#19
West South Central Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Kilgore TX 75662
Posts: 3,372
Re: Making springs last on the street with high lift cams??
Originally Posted by Denny McLain
And a very good 2 cents at that. I'm ordering a set of Behives from Bret and we'll give them a go and see how stuff comes out. The next move sounds like the hollow intake valves to remove mass.
GM is using Titanium intake valves on the new ZO6 reving it to 7000 and offering a warranty. As usual.... GM probably know something. Mass may be the secret as I'm using 2.08 valves but we'll try the easy fix first.
Thanks!!
GM is using Titanium intake valves on the new ZO6 reving it to 7000 and offering a warranty. As usual.... GM probably know something. Mass may be the secret as I'm using 2.08 valves but we'll try the easy fix first.
Thanks!!
I wonder how much the LS7's 2.20" Ti intake valves weigh?
12-17-2005, 04:13 PM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In a house by the bay
Posts: 2,985
Re: Making springs last on the street with high lift cams??
Originally Posted by Denny McLain
GM is using Titanium intake valves on the new ZO6 reving it to 7000 and offering a warranty. As usual.... GM probably know something. Mass may be the secret as I'm using 2.08 valves but we'll try the easy fix first.
Thanks!!
Thanks!!
Interestingly enough, Toyota has been using titanium valves in their Altezza since its debut... late 1998. I was reading about this maybe a week ago. Said that they started with a fully machined 6AL-4V ti valve but later went to a powder metal titanium valve once that technology proved itself. I don't doubt that the Z06 uses PM valves and connecting rods but haven't seen/read proof one way or the other. You'd think that for $70k+ some kind of "Z06 secrets" book would come with it.... but that just aint the case.
-Mindgame
12-17-2005, 05:46 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 747
Re: Making springs last on the street with high lift cams??
Originally Posted by Mindgame
You'd think that for $70k+ some kind of "Z06 secrets" book would come with it.... but that just aint the case.
-Mindgame
-Mindgame
12-18-2005, 01:55 AM
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: I reached back like a pimp and smacked that LS1....
Posts: 886
Re: Making springs last on the street with high lift cams??
Originally Posted by Denny McLain
And a very good 2 cents at that. I'm ordering a set of Behives from Bret and we'll give them a go and see how stuff comes out. The next move sounds like the hollow intake valves to remove mass.
GM is using Titanium intake valves on the new ZO6 reving it to 7000 and offering a warranty. As usual.... GM probably know something. Mass may be the secret as I'm using 2.08 valves but we'll try the easy fix first.
Thanks!!
GM is using Titanium intake valves on the new ZO6 reving it to 7000 and offering a warranty. As usual.... GM probably know something. Mass may be the secret as I'm using 2.08 valves but we'll try the easy fix first.
Thanks!!
12-18-2005, 08:34 AM
#23
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Double Oak TX
Posts: 752
Re: Making springs last on the street with high lift cams??
Originally Posted by INTMD8
What springs did you end up going with?
Just wonder how many people are running around trying to figure out why their car isn't making the power it should after a bunch of mods who didn't replace the springs or have worn springs?? Bet it's a bunch.
If we weren't trying to see what the real effects of colder weather had on actual hp output, it would be me also. Sure would expect a set of 977's to last longer than a couple of months.
Fickle suckers at times.
12-18-2005, 10:10 AM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 586
Re: Making springs last on the street with high lift cams??
Originally Posted by Denny McLain
Just wonder how many people are running around trying to figure out why their car isn't making the power it should after a bunch of mods who didn't replace the springs or have worn springs?? Bet it's a bunch.
Been there, done that.
03-29-2008, 01:46 PM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kantuckee Yo'
Posts: 4,405
Resurrecting this old post.
My Beehives are causing severe valve float at 6K RPM with my fast ramp cam. Who is running the Comp 26921's w/ titanium retainers? Would this be a good choice for a longer lasting good controlling valve spring?
My Beehives are causing severe valve float at 6K RPM with my fast ramp cam. Who is running the Comp 26921's w/ titanium retainers? Would this be a good choice for a longer lasting good controlling valve spring?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post