The heads should be on their way to Lloyd Elliot. Hopefully he will figure somthing out. The only thing different between the mock up at TFS and Speed INC is the block/cam and the people doing it.

 

But even at that, with different cams, it just seems so slim. Duration would have zero affect on it. Only the lift could make the PR touch somehow ( From angle change as the rocker sweeps upward and downward) but I would think it would have to be one radical cam to exceed the limits of those heads with a 1.6RR which they were made for. You would think someone would have seen this problem or checked for it as well.

I cant wait to see what LE says about them.

 

Gents,
we have spent a considerable amount of time investigating this issue. We did not just "make some fast measurements".

Let's be realistic, as a manufacturer it is not in our best interests to not investigate the cause of any problem.

We even put the heads on our CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) to verify the machining was correct.

These heads have been here not once, but twice. Each time they were here we mocked up the rockers and did not see what Speed inc was seeing.

We even posted pictures of two different brands of rockers sitting flatly on the tip of the valve. Where is the issue?...

Initially, we thought the problem revolved around the fact they were using the wrong rocker arm studs (A "bottleneck" style stud) that did not have a locating shank on the bottom side of the stud. The problem with not using a locating shank is the guide plate can move around as you torque it down.

We did a mock up assembly with not only the rocker/studs they were using, But also with our rockers/studs. In each case we had no problem getting the rockers to sit flat on the tip of the valve.

After I received word they were still having issues with getting the rockers to sit flat on the valve tip, We sent out the exact same set of rockers / rocker studs we used at no cost to them for there own verification. When they were not able to get them to sit flat, I had them ship the heads/rocker arms & rocker studs back to us.

When the heads arrived back here for the second time, We once again spent a considerable amount of time mocking up the three different brands of rockers (Crower, Comp & TFS) so as to make absolutely sure that we did not miss something the first time around.

Once again we arrived at the same conclusion. As the pictures clearly show, the rocker arms are sitting flat on the valve tips.

 

So then why don't you assemble the heads with all the parts and send them back to speed assembled with no issues?

 

Per my conversation with Bill, he stated that with only 1 revolution of the engine you guys were seeng only a partial pattern on the valve tip, which eventually made it's way all the way across the valve with more revolutions of the engine. (which is consistent with the condition I was seeing, though when I ran a pattern it would only mark the valve partially regardless of how many times I turned it over.).

But as I also told Bill, if you guys are comfortable with the heads after inspecting them than I have no problem with running them. I only brought up the issue as I have never ran across this in the past when checking valvetrain geometry and wanted to avoid any potential problems.

-Jim

 

Sounds to me that TFS is and has stood behind their product. Glad to here it since I just bought a set of TFS heads from TEA.... Just got them today and I am really excited to get then on my new motor soon.

This is a problem I have never heard of either. I have a feeling that TFS and Speed Inc. have worked with valve train geometry a few times more than me though

The block has nothing to do with this period. Its an issue with the heads or set up and TFS looks like they have proved the heads are clearly in spec and no problems exist when mocked up with several different setups and parts.


Its nice to know that after spending 2 g's I have a company who stands behind what was sold to me.

 

I agree TFS did alot for me. I just get uncomfortable when Jim is not comfortable running them. Its great that TFS is comfortable but then again they don't seem to be seeing the same thing as Speed INC. I want Jim to be comfortable with the assembly with my engine at stake. TFS made it clear they won't cover a dropped valve etc and Speed INC made it clear they didn't want to be liable either. This makes ME very uncomfortable. I don't want a combo I have to run with my fingers crossed. If I did I would have spent a 1/4 of what I did on my rotating assembly and left all the billet rods etc on the shelf. I just want a combo I can at least have faith in...Jim can I trust this setup or not? I expect nothing but honesty from you as you and the crew at Speed INC have been nothing but helpful and honest thus far.

 

We always stand behind our products however these heads were purchased bare and do not have our valves,springs,locks ect. The heads are on their way to Lloyd

 

Cant wait to see what lloyde come up with.

 

Makes things a little more complicated when the heads are puchased bare.

 

I checked the rockers and they sit fine on the valve tip while looking at the heads on a bench. Rockers sit flat on the valves. i can find no problems.

I installed the heads on a stock shortblock with stock cam (all I had in shop) and no problems where there either.

As much as I was expecting to, I really can not find anything at all wrong with the heads.

I can't see a different shortblock and cam changing any of that but if Speed Inc. had a problem, I can't duplicate the problem here at all.

I still need to get the heads surfaced again since the decks were scratched from all of the shipping around and mocking up but they will be ready to ship back around the middle of next week.

Lloyd

 

Just what I was thinking. You dont think TFS would do a switcheroo do ya? Lol. Hey Lloyd, do those heads look like they are from your handywork?

 

There is 0 chance of that. The heads are completely done by Lloyd and it would be insane to think he would not recognize his own work. I wonder what issue Speed INC was having. Lloyd did you happen to rotate the engine over and see if the rockers were laying down an acceptable pattern on the valve. That is where Speed INC began to get nervous. I do appreciate your inspection of these heads and it just goes to show how much you stand by your work and better yet your customers. Thanks again!

 

****ing nuts.

 

Ive been following this thread from the beginning and cant seem to figure out what could cause this since everything checked out fine. Maby tfs did pull a switch on ya.