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HR Closed Spring Pressure Question

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Old Dec 15, 2004 | 11:00 AM
  #16  
SStrokerAce's Avatar
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Re: HR Closed Spring Pressure Question

The other thing to think about is the quality of the metal used in making the spring wire. A 26000 series Comp spring uses a much cleaner spring wire than a standard old 987 or 977. True the dual spring is safer if one fails, but they are also more likely to fail and add more weight to the system which means you need more pressure to control the valve as well and you are stressing the parts more.

BTW the Comp R's can take more seated spring pressure than you need to make that cam run correctly.

Bret
Old Dec 15, 2004 | 02:18 PM
  #17  
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Re: HR Closed Spring Pressure Question

Originally Posted by OldSStroker
Well, perhaps not always.

One of the reasons beehive springs work so well is that they don't have all the harmonics to cancel out. A big enemy of spring life is heat, and with two springs rubbing together more heat is generated. I've seen some Spintron pictures of dual springs and beehive springs doing their "dances". The beehives were more like a waltz and the duals like a jitterbug (for all us old farts who remember that dance).

Yea, I seem to remember a dance like that.
I was speaking from a safty standpoint,it is not likely that both springs will break at the same time and cause big damage.
Old Dec 18, 2004 | 12:11 AM
  #18  
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Re: HR Closed Spring Pressure Question

After thinking about this way too long I have ordered the Comp 26918 springs.
It boiled down to the simplest procedure at this point, plus it's good to hear that
they should eliminate float for my combination, if that's what is going on. All
I have to do is swap beehive for beehive. If this solves the problem I will make
another dyno run and post the results. If not, then it's time for new dual springs,
seats, seals, retainers and locks.

Last edited by truedualws6; Dec 18, 2004 at 06:40 PM.
Old Dec 20, 2004 | 03:08 PM
  #19  
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Re: HR Closed Spring Pressure Question

Originally Posted by truedualws6
After thinking about this way too long I have ordered the Comp 26918 springs.
It boiled down to the simplest procedure at this point, plus it's good to hear that
they should eliminate float for my combination, if that's what is going on. All
I have to do is swap beehive for beehive. If this solves the problem I will make
another dyno run and post the results. If not, then it's time for new dual springs,
seats, seals, retainers and locks.
If the 918's don't fix it then we are probably not dealing with a valve bounce issue. It's usually bounce that causes the lifter pump up not float. Fuel or ignition issues are usually the next culprits but we know you have had a hell of a time with everything on that setup.

Bret
Old Dec 20, 2004 | 05:28 PM
  #20  
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Re: HR Closed Spring Pressure Question

Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
If the 918's don't fix it then we are probably not dealing with a valve bounce issue. It's usually bounce that causes the lifter pump up not float. Fuel or ignition issues are usually the next culprits but we know you have had a hell of a time with everything on that setup.

Bret
Thanks for the clarification on the bounce. It really does make more sense
that the mass of the combination (valve, spring, rocker, pushrod and lifter)
is such that the spring pressure is not adequate to hold the roller on the cam
and results in bounce. As an additional mitigating measure I will also swap out
the 795-16 steel retainers with the 794-16 titanium retainers. I just need to
find them for a good price. Hopefully in the $150 range.

I do have another question. Is it acceptable to chamfer the inside of the base
of the 26918 spring to allow it to sit flush on a LT4 spring seat? If I swapped
out my .062" seats for the .040" LT4 seats I would get an installed height of
1.77" (vs. the current 1.75") and a closed pressure of 139# (vs. 146#). Or is
this just too stupid to mess with?
Old Dec 21, 2004 | 12:41 AM
  #21  
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Re: HR Closed Spring Pressure Question

Originally Posted by truedualws6
Thanks for the clarification on the bounce. It really does make more sense
that the mass of the combination (valve, spring, rocker, pushrod and lifter)
is such that the spring pressure is not adequate to hold the roller on the cam
and results in bounce. As an additional mitigating measure I will also swap out
the 795-16 steel retainers with the 794-16 titanium retainers. I just need to
find them for a good price. Hopefully in the $150 range.

I do have another question. Is it acceptable to chamfer the inside of the base
of the 26918 spring to allow it to sit flush on a LT4 spring seat? If I swapped
out my .062" seats for the .040" LT4 seats I would get an installed height of
1.77" (vs. the current 1.75") and a closed pressure of 139# (vs. 146#). Or is
this just too stupid to mess with?

Keep the 146 #'s on the seat. Springs are shot peaned and prepped before they leave the factory so it's better not to screw with them.

Bret
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 12:32 AM
  #22  
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Re: HR Closed Spring Pressure Question

If you take 146# and subtract 20-25# after break in what do you have. 120-125 would be the minimum seat pressure I would use.
Like Bret said DON'T grind on your springs,unless you want trouble down the road.
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 10:01 AM
  #23  
SStrokerAce's Avatar
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Re: HR Closed Spring Pressure Question

You can prep springs, but it should be a rule for most guys to not touch them. They are made idiot proof so you don't need to grind on them before you install them.

Bret
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