FAST, E-Dist, Crank trigger, Cam sync... argh- what do I need?
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Registered User
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 472
From: Mobile, Alabama
FAST, E-Dist, Crank trigger, Cam sync... argh- what do I need?
Okay- I'm currently running a FAST bank/bank system with Bob's LTCC and the LS1 coils. I'm using the optispark as required for the LTCC.
I'm wondering what exactly is needed to run a conventional SBC and retain my FAST, but use an E-DIST and the LS1 coils?
I think I need to run a crank trigger for the 4X signal and the MSD distributor "plug" for the cam sync, but I'm not sure.
Anyone have any insight on what is actually needed for a "coil on plug" setup w/out the opti?
thanks!
I'm wondering what exactly is needed to run a conventional SBC and retain my FAST, but use an E-DIST and the LS1 coils?
I think I need to run a crank trigger for the 4X signal and the MSD distributor "plug" for the cam sync, but I'm not sure.
Anyone have any insight on what is actually needed for a "coil on plug" setup w/out the opti?
thanks!
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 555
From: Yakima WA
AFAIK yer gonna need to send in your box to FAST HQ and get it changed over. Parts wise i think you're looking at the right stuff once the box is fixed....
Ya need to just put a damned Distributor in it and be done w/ it.
No need to reinvent the wheel w/ this coil on plug crap, when theres a proven route.
JM $.03
Ya need to just put a damned Distributor in it and be done w/ it.
No need to reinvent the wheel w/ this coil on plug crap, when theres a proven route. JM $.03
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 300
From: Hudson,MA currently Worcester, MA
If your going to run a conventional SBC then why bother with the coils, just use a distributor.
Your going to need an MSD crank trigger and a cam sync which I would use a hall effect which would mean sending in your F.A.S.T. box and getting it converted to hall effect.
if you want you can PM me and i can talk to you by phone if you'd like.
Your going to need an MSD crank trigger and a cam sync which I would use a hall effect which would mean sending in your F.A.S.T. box and getting it converted to hall effect.
if you want you can PM me and i can talk to you by phone if you'd like.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,248
From: Bountiful, Utah
Why won't the MSD "stub shaft" give you the two sync signals you need?
Hay that e-mail on headers....
You'd have to have the car up here to go that route. I'd look into headman for bbc stuff to fit the body you talked about, they have a "box set". But Brady on the ltcc you have now why not use that with a couple of crank triggers to feed the sync signals to bobs box? You need to "TALK"/ e-mail bob.
You need a one pulse and a 4 pulse I belive if your into a little fab work.
Hay that e-mail on headers....
You'd have to have the car up here to go that route. I'd look into headman for bbc stuff to fit the body you talked about, they have a "box set". But Brady on the ltcc you have now why not use that with a couple of crank triggers to feed the sync signals to bobs box? You need to "TALK"/ e-mail bob.
You need a one pulse and a 4 pulse I belive if your into a little fab work.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 659
From: Chicago, IL
This is also a common LS1 problem.
You need to have a crank signal that is 4x to go into the FAST.
In your case, you might just need a crank trigger.
LS1 FAST tuners like Kurt Urban at Wheel to Wheel or Brian Jeffries at Madman & Company mount an MSD crank trigger off the front of an LS1 oil pan. They add a ring to the backside of the (ATI) damper. This stuff all needs to be trued up too.
You need to have a crank signal that is 4x to go into the FAST.
In your case, you might just need a crank trigger.
LS1 FAST tuners like Kurt Urban at Wheel to Wheel or Brian Jeffries at Madman & Company mount an MSD crank trigger off the front of an LS1 oil pan. They add a ring to the backside of the (ATI) damper. This stuff all needs to be trued up too.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 839
From: Minnesota
Hey Brady if your thinking of doing this I know a local guy that is selling all his coil conversion kit. It would include e-dis box, crank trigger, 8 coils with a custom harness, and the cam sesnsor. However I would use the hall effect, those cam sensors can be a pain. Let me know if your interested.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 300
From: Hudson,MA currently Worcester, MA
Why do they go thru the trouble of mounting the ring behind the ATI dampner when the ATI dampner has a raised face on the front that the MSD crank trigger wheel fits nicely over and bolts right to it.
Ive seen a crank trigger on the front of a Dampner on a LS1 before. Just seem like a lot of work to get it behind it.
Rob
Ive seen a crank trigger on the front of a Dampner on a LS1 before. Just seem like a lot of work to get it behind it.
Rob
Registered User
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 799
From: Redmond, WA
In the mess that showed up with my engine, there was one thing that might help you. My SEFI-8LO CPU was packed in a bag with a card that read "Converted 30-116010 to 30-113010".
30-116010 is the LT1/LT4 bank/bank system with wide band 02 option that I originally bought. 30-113010 is listed as "Inductive pickup" on FAST's site, also with wide band 02 option, so it looks like that's the change necessary to allow the SEFI-8LO to fire the injectors using a crank trigger.
I also have the cam stub from the MSD Digital CPC system, but it was not installed, as expected. My MSD crank trigger kit consisted of a used wheel only, no bracket, no sensor, no hardware. And I received a harness of dubious condition (it was originally intended for a front cover mounted cam sensor and was possibly rewired) as well as 8 used LS1 coils, and an eDIST. In other words, I can't tell you if this configuration works, although in theory it should.
During the front cover cam sensor fiasco, my cover was apparently removed and sent with the timing set for modification, but when they weren't returned in a reasonable timeframe (several months), a new timing set and front cover were apparently installed. I say apparently because I haven't been able verify that the front cover ever came off my engine after the dyno session in April of '02 when we had problems with the Opti-spark.
Regardless, the Opti-spark hole in the cover is still open, and welding it closed would require pulling the balancer and pan, so I still have the option of trying to find an Opti-spark that won't spark scatter at high rpm (two were tried, including the brand new one I sent down, I was told) and/or use the LTCC kit, although how that would interface with the SEFI-8LO is a good question.
Or I can try to make my mess work, or just buy the rest of the MSD Digital CPC system (crank trigger, harness, and coils are sold seperately, BTW) and try to interface that with the SEFI-8LO, if required. What a mess.
30-116010 is the LT1/LT4 bank/bank system with wide band 02 option that I originally bought. 30-113010 is listed as "Inductive pickup" on FAST's site, also with wide band 02 option, so it looks like that's the change necessary to allow the SEFI-8LO to fire the injectors using a crank trigger.
I also have the cam stub from the MSD Digital CPC system, but it was not installed, as expected. My MSD crank trigger kit consisted of a used wheel only, no bracket, no sensor, no hardware. And I received a harness of dubious condition (it was originally intended for a front cover mounted cam sensor and was possibly rewired) as well as 8 used LS1 coils, and an eDIST. In other words, I can't tell you if this configuration works, although in theory it should.
During the front cover cam sensor fiasco, my cover was apparently removed and sent with the timing set for modification, but when they weren't returned in a reasonable timeframe (several months), a new timing set and front cover were apparently installed. I say apparently because I haven't been able verify that the front cover ever came off my engine after the dyno session in April of '02 when we had problems with the Opti-spark.
Regardless, the Opti-spark hole in the cover is still open, and welding it closed would require pulling the balancer and pan, so I still have the option of trying to find an Opti-spark that won't spark scatter at high rpm (two were tried, including the brand new one I sent down, I was told) and/or use the LTCC kit, although how that would interface with the SEFI-8LO is a good question.
Or I can try to make my mess work, or just buy the rest of the MSD Digital CPC system (crank trigger, harness, and coils are sold seperately, BTW) and try to interface that with the SEFI-8LO, if required. What a mess.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 555
From: Yakima WA
Originally posted by jimlab
Regardless, the Opti-spark hole in the cover is still open, and welding it closed would require pulling the balancer and pan, so I still have the option of trying to find an Opti-spark that won't spark scatter at high rpm (two were tried, including the brand new one I sent down, I was told) and/or use the LTCC kit, although how that would interface with the SEFI-8LO is a good question.
Regardless, the Opti-spark hole in the cover is still open, and welding it closed would require pulling the balancer and pan, so I still have the option of trying to find an Opti-spark that won't spark scatter at high rpm (two were tried, including the brand new one I sent down, I was told) and/or use the LTCC kit, although how that would interface with the SEFI-8LO is a good question.
How is the clearance behind the engoine (firewall)? Does your sheetmetal intake have provision for distributor? This would simplify everything SOOOO much. I actually have a brand new MSD Small Diameter distributor w/ built in Cam Sync I'm trying to get rid of if you're interested.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 300
From: Hudson,MA currently Worcester, MA
Jimlab,
I just went and checked that part number 30-113010 with my F.A.S.T. bank to bank unit and thats the part number I have.
So I went and looked at 2 Sequential F.A.S.T systems I have here and they both have the part number 30-233311.
I think you have a bank to bank system not a sequential??
I'd also like to correct what I said in my first post, You do not need to send in your bank to bank system back to F.A.S.T to have it converted. The edist is what reads the cam sync not the ECU
only in a Sequential system to you need to send it back to F.A.S.T. to get it set up to read the cam sync.
The only thing you need to run the coils with your F.A.S.T. bank to bank system is a MSD crank trigger and an Edidt box and a hall effect sensor.
Inductive pick ups don't work.
I just went and checked that part number 30-113010 with my F.A.S.T. bank to bank unit and thats the part number I have.
So I went and looked at 2 Sequential F.A.S.T systems I have here and they both have the part number 30-233311.
I think you have a bank to bank system not a sequential??
I'd also like to correct what I said in my first post, You do not need to send in your bank to bank system back to F.A.S.T to have it converted. The edist is what reads the cam sync not the ECU
only in a Sequential system to you need to send it back to F.A.S.T. to get it set up to read the cam sync.
The only thing you need to run the coils with your F.A.S.T. bank to bank system is a MSD crank trigger and an Edidt box and a hall effect sensor.
Inductive pick ups don't work.
Registered User
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 799
From: Redmond, WA
Originally posted by KTamez
Jim, FYI, GM has a Cover specifically for this purpose, that covers the hole in the front of the timing cover for applications not using the Opti.
Jim, FYI, GM has a Cover specifically for this purpose, that covers the hole in the front of the timing cover for applications not using the Opti.
How is the clearance behind the engine (firewall)? Does your sheetmetal intake have provision for distributor? This would simplify everything SOOOO much. I actually have a brand new MSD Small Diameter distributor w/ built in Cam Sync I'm trying to get rid of if you're interested.
http://home.gci.net/~jimlab/images/Cradle/P9140012.jpg
All Hogan's SBC-style intakes come with a rear distributor hole by default and it would have cost more than it was worth to have one built without it.
http://home.gci.net/~jimlab/images/Intake/PC050046.jpg
Registered User
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 799
From: Redmond, WA
Originally posted by 96Z28SS
I think you have a bank to bank system not a sequential??
I think you have a bank to bank system not a sequential??
I'd also like to correct what I said in my first post, You do not need to send in your bank to bank system back to F.A.S.T to have it converted. The edist is what reads the cam sync not the ECU only in a Sequential system to you need to send it back to F.A.S.T. to get it set up to read the cam sync.
The only thing you need to run the coils with your F.A.S.T. bank to bank system is a MSD crank trigger and an Edidt box and a hall effect sensor.
Inductive pick ups don't work.
Inductive pick ups don't work.
Last edited by jimlab; Oct 4, 2003 at 09:03 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 409
From: Grand Rapids, Mi USA
I have read the age old opti question about: "How do I rid of my whole opti?"
With out giving up to much info I want to offer a little hint to look into and this will not require you to drill the rear of your intake. Check into a front mounted distributor and Jessel belt drive. I know your going to say Jessel doesn't make a belt drive for the LT motor's and the main issue that people face is the cover but trust me when I say this, it is possible to do this setup and it will elimanate the front mounted opti all together. There are other peices required but I think most can figure it out from there.
I'm very sorry for not giving any more info about this setup but that is only because the person that built it asked me to not mention anything about it because he is looking to offer the conversion to the public very soon as the replacement for the opti.
The only down fall is cost of this conversion but then again just about every individual screen name in hear that I have seen post on this one thread doesn't seem to be worried to much about money.
Jim
You guy's check into this little bit and you will see what to do.
With out giving up to much info I want to offer a little hint to look into and this will not require you to drill the rear of your intake. Check into a front mounted distributor and Jessel belt drive. I know your going to say Jessel doesn't make a belt drive for the LT motor's and the main issue that people face is the cover but trust me when I say this, it is possible to do this setup and it will elimanate the front mounted opti all together. There are other peices required but I think most can figure it out from there.
I'm very sorry for not giving any more info about this setup but that is only because the person that built it asked me to not mention anything about it because he is looking to offer the conversion to the public very soon as the replacement for the opti.
The only down fall is cost of this conversion but then again just about every individual screen name in hear that I have seen post on this one thread doesn't seem to be worried to much about money.
Jim
You guy's check into this little bit and you will see what to do.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 442
From: Houston, TX
Here's what I did on mine...
Mounted the crank trigger on top of the ATI
And for the cam sync I'm going to mount it on the belt drive
The Crank trigger will plug into the CPS on the Fast harness (green wire on the MSD goes to the red wire on the Fast). And the cam sync will plug into the cam position harness on teh fast. It will aslo be green to red I believe. The Edist will then send signal to the 8 individual coil packs.
Good luck
Later
Chuck
Mounted the crank trigger on top of the ATI
And for the cam sync I'm going to mount it on the belt drive
The Crank trigger will plug into the CPS on the Fast harness (green wire on the MSD goes to the red wire on the Fast). And the cam sync will plug into the cam position harness on teh fast. It will aslo be green to red I believe. The Edist will then send signal to the 8 individual coil packs.
Good luck
Later
Chuck
