Hello Everyone,

I have started to run into some snags on the pulley routing. I purchased a set of 50MM cog pullies for the D-3M Procharger. Unfortunately these pullies only use a single V Belt groove located in the back closest to the balancer, unlike the 12 rib serpentine I had before which had 2 v belt groves. I drive the water pump and alternator of the front V belt.

I talked with a company called RCD and they offer a mandrel which allows a guy to get the front V Belt grove back.

I have been thinking about a Meziere high flow 55 gallon per minute water pump. This water pump is rated for applications were an engine could see continous duty.

My question is this, how many GPM does a V Belt driven water pump put out. I would think manufacturers would have the break down for each 1000 rpm, increments? I have emailed some companies, and will try the phone next when I have time.

I would like to know if the elec. and belt driven are somewhat close in output. I need to be able to keep things cool.

This would eliminate one more pulley to align with the rest of the mix and free up some hp.

Chad Byers
78 Nova
Speed Pro Sefi
ATI Procharger D-3M
Spearco Intercooled
Dart Big M 540 BBC

 

The Meziere constantly puts out it's 55gpm vs the water pumps variable rate due to engine rpm. If this is not a daily driver the elcetric H2O pumps now are good enough that you can use them all the time.

Bret

 

Bret I would think this pump may do better on the street than my V belt water pump since engine rpm is usually under 2000. I agree 55 gpm all the time is probably more then what the V belt does during regular street driving.

This car is 75% street driven, and the rest drag racing. This is not a daily driver, just something that comes out on the weekends. It would be lucky to put 20 miles on the odo in an evening outing. Maybe in a year put 2000 miles on the car.

If I do go this route, one more battery may be needed in the trunk of the car. I am currently powering the Speed Pro ecu, MSD ignition, Weldon 2025 pump - Jacobs Accuvolt, 2 Spal Fans @1hp each. I have a single wire 140 amp alternator. Just hope I can keep the juice up to all this electric stuff.

Would two batteries be needed to keep up with the electrical demands?



Chad

 

Hello everyone,

Got off the phone with Meziere water pumps. A V Belt driven water pump at idle typical moves 5 GPM. At 3000 rpm they turn right at 25-30 GPM. At full rev's I take this to be 6000 rpm or so, the pump turns 55-60 gpm.

So, the electric water pump will provide more water flow down low during street driving, and still match the output at the top end.

The electric pump is rated to last 2500 hrs of use, and they reccomend sending it in every two years for a check up. If they have to replace seals and bearings that runs a guy 50 bucks. For the output of the pump, longevity, and freed up hp I think I will go ahead and get one.

Sorry for the post, may be helpful to others taking a read,

Chad

 

Chad
Great info for people curious about the pumps. Hows the setup doing haven't seen any posts recently on new things with the car.

Steven

 

Belt driven pumps are the worst ever, that is why LT1's have CAM driven pumps, the problem with belt driven pumps is SIDE LOAD, the bearing inside the pump gets all the side load to one side & fails prematurely, that you have a seized pump with a slipping belt & a the fins sliding on the shaft inside the pump causing overheating & not moving any coolant.

Also, belt driven pumps fail when the belt comes off with electric/cam driven you still have about 1 hour of driving off the battery depending on the battery ofcoarse .

Once I lost my belt on the HWY because I screwed up the tensioner washer sides when putting it on, & the belt came off, it took me 1 hour to get home & it made it just fine, the next day I even started it to get to GM to buy me a belt, this is GM truck battery for ya, takes a bit to put it in put its great

anyways hope this helps make up your mind. Electric is by far the best INHO. Also, I always have a spare one in my car just incase, they are easy to take off since the main housing stays on the car & you just unbolts the 5, 10mm bolts & swap pumps on the go.

 

Stephen,

I have been too busy to spend much time on the computer. I had a very bad engine builder experience about one year ago with the Gen 6 502 cid. Ended up lifting a head gasket due to assembly error on the 4th pull on the chasis dyno. Car made 815 rwhp at 5500 rpm through the mufflers with a fat air fuel ratio, and conservative timing. To say I was disgusted would be an understatement.

Since that engine was designed for 750 crank hp max, I decided to have the engine freshened up back to it's N/A build from Sallee Chevrolet. This engine makes 615 hp and 645 ft tq. Put this engine in dads L72 66 Stingray Corvette. Converted it over to an MSD ignition, alluminum radiator - allum water pump. Since this is a 4spd car, we went with a centerforce dual friction clutch and a Lakewood bellhousing shield. But did we stop there... not hardly. Resealed the muncie, no leaks now. Went over to a composite TRW style rear spring. Had Van Steel rebuild the rear bearing assemblies. Installed off set trailing arms so I can fit a 255 series tire. Then the rear end case was out of spec, got a new one, shimmed everything back up and got that done.

Just here as of late we finished up the exhaust system on the Vette. Due to the cross member the car can only utilize 2.5 inch pipes. Went with all mandrel bent pieces to a pair of Borlas. Also had enough room behind the tranny to do an X crossover.

As far as vettes driving on the street, you will see none nicer. Car is not a 100pter, but then again who wants a trailor queen. Dads car has 26000 original miles on the clock. The paint was done 15 years ago, yet everyone thinks it was just shot. The color is Mossport green and looks like a green - silver.

At elevation (5000 ft) this car should do 11.60's if we can hook it up.

Now to the Nova. I ordered the shortblock pieces through Callies out of Ohio, delt with Brook Piper. I went with a Dart Big M std deck height 9.8 inch block, 4.5 inch bore, this block has splayed caps and all the goodies. The crankshaft is a 4.25 inch 4340 dual keyway Pro Magnum. This crank is what Jim Oddy runs in his Summitt blown Corvette making 2000+ hp. The rods are oliver 6.385 inch, with JE -20 CC blower pistons. Everything is internally balanced, the dampner is an ATI. All of these parts are rated for power numbers above what I am going to do. At least this way the parts will have some longevity in this application.

I have a set of Brodix BB2+ fully CNC'd heads. They have a 2.30 intake valve with 1.88 exhaust. I just had new severe duty valves installed. These flow 355 cfm. I went over to a solid roller cam, the lift is 668* intake, @50 its 260. The exhaust is 672* and @50 270, with a 114 LSA. This cam should make good power, while retaining descent street manners.

I went ahead an bought a Jesel belt drive system over a timing chain. I need to fab up a front cover since they only make a SBC piece. This way in the event of a blower belt breaking I can be somewhat safe from debris.

With the cog pullies (73 crank, 42 blower) I should be able to get right at 14-15 psi intercooled at 1100 ft elevation (Tempe AZ). I am estimating the car will do easily over 900 rwhp. On the dyno graphs towards the end of the pull you could see were the 12 rib belt was slipping.

If you all ever go over to cogs and need a V Belt, take a look at this: These guys make mandrels for anything you need to run,

http://www.rcdengineering.com/strod4.html

Another problem that has come about is the TH400, tranny is slipping. I will be ordering a Vasco TH400 through Mikes out of California. I use a 9 inch Art Carr stalling right at 3000 rpm.

Next week I go down to Phoenix to pick the car up, getting a 10 pt roll cag installed. The old cage was not the best. This time its tig welded and all the angles are correct and tie in points.

I figure I am roughly 2 months away from hitting the track, the car will first need to pass a chasis certification, and I will have to get my license as well. NHRA is a hassle all the way.

Now your updated a bit Stephen,

Chad

 

Wow Chad and i thought i was busy lol. Sounds like you will have one heck of a built new motor.

Steven

 

i am considering putting a CSI electric water pump on my street/strip 383 putting out 450hp and 500ft lbs of torque but how do i go about the setup sense there is no belt

does anyone have pics or can give me some direction??

 

Since it is an electric pump, why do you need a belt? Please explain what you mean.

And the same d@mn question everyone asks you EVERY time you post.... what kind of engine are you talking about? Is there some reason you refuse to use the signature field?

Strike two-and-a-half!

 

why dont you use your head its a 1991 RS so it gonna be a SB1
and as i stated its a 383 putting out 450hp and 500ft lbs of torque

i know that you dont use a belt on electric water pumps but how do you run the belt setup since you dont have a belt to hook to the crank pulley

i am sorry for asking questions maybe i should just go find another website that is more into helping and not so picky about what is in a thread and what is left out

 

I'm sorry to jump in here, but how would Injuneer be able to tell what you had by your post? I sure couldn't .

I dunno about you, but I think this site works pretty well for answering people's questions. People gotta know what you're talking about though before they can answer.

 

I'll apologize in advance to the rest of the readers, and then do something I really hate to do, which is lose my temper.

Excuse me... but where does it say that it is a 1991RS in your post? Could anyone else understand your incomprehensible question about "no belt".... I'm trying to help here, but you refuse to cooperate.

Are you expecting everyone here to remember what kind of car you own, what kind of motor you have , etc.??? There are hundreds of people posting here. That is what the "Signature" field is for. I've explained that to you repeatedly. Kmook has explained it to you repeatedly.

As far as I am concerned, your attitude and refusal to cooperate, or even have the simple courtesy to reply to the many e-mails I have sent you indicates you really don't respect the people here on the board. As such, all your future posts on Advanced Tech will be deleted.

Sorry... but I have tried numerous time to explain this all to you in the most courteous way, and you shove it up my butt.. I really have better things to do.

Do us all a favor and stop posting unitl you develop a little respect for the people that want to help you.

Fred
Moderator