If i was looking for someone to desige a cam for me(custom cam) and i were to ask them what kind of softwear they use. What woult be the top of the line down to bottem end stuff be.

How close and you get to the perfect cam..

thx

 

You talked to Denny?

Yes, software....

As far as big names go, there's always Camspring from Ricardo. Don't doubt that a few oem's use it. Then there are the custom applications built around particular mathematical models and empirical data found through extensive testing. Most of the custom stuff used by race shops falls more into this category as the empirical data really sets the software apart from others. If you had the programming knowledge, you could purchase SAE papers, textbooks, etc., and design your own software. It's the stuff you can't buy that makes the difference.

-Mindgame

 

My take is that you are asking what engine design software is being used to spec a custom cam, where lobe profiles are selected from those already in the cam company's database. That's probably how most "custom cams" are designed. True, Cup teams and ProStock builders may get new lobes from the cam companies, and OEMs certainly must have lobe design software, but with most of the rest of us, the hundreds or thousands of lobes already on the books give the engine designer about all the tools he needs.

It is my understanding that even Cup engine guys go to their cam companies and ask for druations, lift and maybe some other data points on a lobe and get a new one made for them. Sometimes it's as simple as "give us 4 more degrees of intake duration than cam XYZ we got yesterday". The lobe design is left up to the cam company guru and his software. He knows what parameters he needs to control and can come up with a new lobe quickly. Remember that these cam gurus work with many different teams and car companies, and can't really tell one team what another is doing. My guess is that more than one team comes up with similar requirements about the same time, and only the cam guru knows what each is doing. Except in a general way, he can't say.

I suggest that guys who spec custom cams often simulate your engine and try to spec a cam that gives you the most power in the rpm range you are going to run the engine. That's why thy need so much information about your engine, heads, vehicle, gears, etc.

All that being said, it's not the tool (software) that chooses the cam, it's the designer using that tool. Sure, an infinite number of monkeys trying an infinite number of cam lobes, LSAs and advance/retards might come up with your best cam, but a good engine designer can use some of the mid-priced software and his knowledge and experience and come pretty close.

IMO, the perfect cam is much like the perfect woman...exceedingly difficult to find.

Desktop Dyno probably isn't sophisticated enough. I haven't seen DynoSim up close, but it's probably a little better. As Mindgame said, software that has been developed and checked with real engine dyno runs (that's the empirical data), probably does a good job.

Bottom line is it's not the tool , it's how you use it.

My $.02

 

Yeah, I think you're right. I'll chalk this one up as another one I missed the boat on.

You would definitely need an engine modeling software capable of simulating the interaction of pressure waves and particle flow within exhaust and intake systems. Can't believe I just put that in one sentence. That's a lot of subject matter!
A program that could accurately simulate these things could also provide a pressure/crank angle diagram which would be of the utmost importance in placing those critical valve events. GIGO... need lots of accurate data and knowledge.

-Mindgame

 

The OEM's and high-end race R&D shops must have the most sophisticated engine simulation software there is. Yet I would still bet they ultimately test a whole bunch of (real) cams and don't just rely on sims, no matter how sophisticated. Past experience also must play a role and shouldn't be discounted.

Rich

 

Surprisingly, some Cup engine guys and other big-time teams actually use some of the under-$1000 software available to all of us. Of course they probably have the more sophisticated stuff also.

Yep, testing the actual cam is certainly done, but the software can predict a trend either of improvement or not based on test data from the last cam. Generally IF you have modeled the engine accurately, and your software results predict the actual dyno results, making a cam change on the simulaton will show the same trend and often just about the same % change on the dyno. The simulation allows you to try hundreds (or thousands) of combinations quickly and cheaply.

Exactly!