Hi Bret,
In another post you stated "no comment" about having a block Cryo treated. Would you care to comment about your comment about having "no comment?"

 

LOL

I'm subscribing to this thread.

 

Hey Mook,
I didn't ask for your comment about Bret's comment about having "no comment" about having an engine Cryo treated! So, don't comment with a comment when no one asked for your comment since I asked Bret for a comment about his comment of having "no comment" about having an engine Cryo treated!
Got it, jabronie?

 

Bob,

I'm still laughing about this........ you are too much

I really just clicked on advanced tech to see what you had to say and now I just can stop laughing.

God was that even a comment.

uhhhhh, I think I'm done laughing now.

I just thought it was interesting to have a block cyro treated. It's usefull to some extent on parts, but you have to destroy a identical part to test it just to see if it's a worth while process.

I'm gonna quote the old man off another forum on this because I can't say it any better than he does:

"Thoughts:

One of the primary advantages of sub-zero treatment, whether it be -120F or -300F is the conversion of retained austenite to martensite in the steel (or ductile iron) structure. Without getting too boring, a nearly 100% martensitic structure is preferred for strength over one with some untransformed austenite which occurs during heat treating. If there is 1-3% or so retained austenite, there won't be much gain, but if there were 2-3 time as much, you might expect more gains. We'll know more about LS1 cranks soon.

Anytime you cool or heat metal parts, especially over a 600F range, you may change size or configuration. I worry most about straightness of things like cranks and cams during post-machining heat treating.

Engine parts are not tool bits. The material, function and heat treatment are very different.

Before I'd cryo treat a block, I'd want to know how the cylinder bore structure and hardness changed because different structures require different surface conditions for best ring seal. What works for a normal gray cast iron isn't necessarily optimum for cylinder liners which were made and heat treated differently. I suspect the same thing with treated blocks.

If I were building an endurance engine (Winston Cup, etc), I'd do extensive testing of treated and untreated parts before I treated any of them, then pick and choose what helped. If I were building a street engine, I would be sure that the treatment was helping rather than hurting before I'd use it. IMO, this is especially true with cast, or PM, and subsequently heat-treated engine parts like cranks and rods.

All that being said, some sub-zero (around -120F) treatment is regularly used when making many parts. We produce many bearing rollers, and impact parts from high carbon, high chrome bearing steel which are always sub-zero treated. This is done before the finish machining/grinding operations, however."

That whole tread is here:
http://www.ls1tech.com/threads/showf...fpart=all&vc=1

I hope that's a good enough for my comment, even though I ccan make as good of a comment about my fathers comment. I hope his post justifies my orginal comment on the no comment comment in another post. Whew

Bret

 

I would like to comment that Bret's comment utilizing his Pop's comment was very interesting! The R&D process, and possible harm to components are things that never would have crossed my mind! But that is the reason I made the comment about asking for Brett's comment about having no comment!
Good comment, Brett! And kudos to your Pop for having such a good comment that you could comment about for your comment about having "no comment!"
Thanks.
-ub

 

Bob, if I were to comment on your screen name, which I won't, it would be that sub-zero cryo treatment might stabilize you, especially the -300F stuff. Truth be told, your screen name seems perfect.

Are you thinking of attending AETC in January? The afterhours "bovine scatology" is almost as good as the formal presentations, but I couldn't comment on that.

http://www.aetconline.com/information/

(AKA Bret's Ol Man)


PS: Isn't "wastelands of NJ" redundant?

 

Being a close personal friend of Unstable Bob, I can assure you that his screen name is most appropriate. It may even be an "under statememt".

 

BAHAHAHAHA! Now that is a funny thought...they could freeze me into an unstable-sickle and store me next to Ted Williams' head.

OldSStroker: Hee hee, I cannot help but envision you as being
"Pops Racer" from "Speed Racer." And yes, NJ is a wasteland, but I have my nice 'lil plot out here in the woods. It is a White Trash paradise! Nothing but cars up on blocks, a junkyard next door, and my own private still churning out my special blend of "unstable mash!" Lemme know if ya ever get down here to the
hollers. We can sit around, sip some shine, and talk some tech!
And I promise you won't hear any banjos, or hear any talk about "pigs squealing." Hell, I even have all my teeth!

 

I, too drove USAF fighters, but couple of wars ago. I had an engine (one of one on the aircraft) come apart due to some "interesting" engineering or perhaps lack of it, in the engine. Maybe the fix WAS cryoing the offending turbine spacer. Mine was the first "fixed" one to fail. Doncha' just love being the beta tester?

I find it difficult to believe "...within the aeospace community.. if we need a quick fix for increase stress compacity .. we don't reengineer.. we cryo first.... of cours reengineering and cryo is the next step.". Perhaps you speak for yourself and not the entire aerospace community?

BTW, why spend the big bucks to cryo pantyhose? or even razor blades? I'll bet there's more retained austenite in the blades than the hose.

I am reminded of the quote: "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is." maybe from Stroker McGurk.

This is definitely the place for differing opinions. We certainly do differ on this. Hey, this forum has been sleeping recently. Time to wake it up!

 

Have we met? This is scary. Here's Pops Racer from the official website:

"The world’s foremost automotive engineer, Pops Racer designed and built the fabulous Mach 5. Pops can always be counted on to be as loud and overbearing as any well-meaning father has the right to be. But his love for Speed and his faith in his son’s ability as a top-notch racer car driver brings out the kinder, gentler side of his personality, particularly in light of his overprotective treatment of his first son, Rex.

The older boy ran away from home when he was Speed’s age. But this doesn’t mean that Pops isn’t protective of Speed. On occasion, Pops will battle many a villain, putting to good use his skills as a former wrestling champion of the Westside Grunters and Groaners Club. Undoubtedly, his automotive genius, his enthusiasm (he was once hospitalized with exhaustion while outfitting the Mach 5 with winglets), and his advice help make Speed the superstar of the racing world."

How far are you from Hamburg, NJ?

 

Hee hee, see Pops, maybe I am the eye in the sky! And as we all know, there is a fine line between stability and instability. How do you live on a knife edge??? Very carefully!

I'm about an hour away from Hamburg {MMMMMM, HAMBURG!}

 

I think I found you on the 'net:

" Stability and Reactivity

Stability:
Shock and heat sensitive. Thermally unstable. Reacts violently with a broad range of materials. Heating of closed containers may cause detonation.

Hazardous Decomposition Products:
Burning may produce carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, nitrogen oxides.

Incompatibilities:

Amines, acids, bases, oxidizing materials, metal oxides, aluminum chloride plus organic matter, hexamethylbenzene, hydrocarbons, calcium hypochlorite, potassium hydroxide, sodium hydroxide, calcium hydroxide. Slowly corrodes steel and copper when wet.

Conditions to Avoid:
Heat, flames, ignition sources and incompatibles. Shock sensitive. "

That's either you or nitromethane...or maybe both.

 

WHOA! Makes me sound like I'm a Demolition Man! Or to quote the "Night Rider" from "Mad Max;" "I'm a fuel injected, suicide machine!"
Actually, I'm just a nice boy with a PHd in B.S. {ING}

 

Last post before they move this to the lounge:

BS= well, you know
MS = "More of the Same"
PhD= "Piled Higher and Deeper"

I believe you, UB.

Back to Advanced BS....

 

If your were to Cyro the entire engine, would you do so as a complete longblock? Or each different part, such as the block first, then Rods, then Crank, then the pistons, etc. All in a seperate "treatment"?