I haven't been online much lately and just skimmed over this, but I agree completely with Mr. Meaux, and Mindgame as well... there's an 'ideal' cylinder head out there for your application, but there are so many variables with street setups that it can be difficult to accurately determine what that is sometimes.

Though we're a distributor for AFR, I haven't ever had their ports do what they claim out of the box. I assume part of this is due to the fact that they likely use the numbers obtained from their master ports as opposed to the as-machined version. FWIW I use a half inch brzezinski cnc inlet on a fully computer controlled sf600 with no exhaust extension for the numbers I make public. The 195's will go ~300cfm and 22X on exhaust, but in my experience they begin to get thin, and if you want that kind of airflow you might as well just start with a 210 casting. The 210's and 220's should have the same potential as they both have the same internal water passages. I would recommend the 210's over the 220's unless you're going to run shaftmounts, in which case you might as well just have the 227's gone through. AFR's are great, but sometimes the castings are porous, and I tend to try to stay on the 'safe' side, leaving ports thick where there's water or the chance an errant wrench could pop a hole in it.

The new trickflows are an alright casting, but they have some issues I personally worry about and that will hurt their ability to consistently put up good numbers safely. In my opinion they are a great deal like a GM Lt4 casting, and will handle 29Xcfm peak before they start getting too thin for me to feel comfortable giving them to people. FWIW, I like to see at minimum .125" where there's water, and will stay in the .150-200" range whenever possible. We've pushed race oriented things thinner and I've gotten piles of heads done elsewhere that were just blown out until they were paper thin, and though many of those never had issues, I don't even want to have to worry about it when it comes to street guys. I know everyone gets excited about making XXXhp (I still do as well, LOL), but I try to be realistic & focus on being safe as a priority since alot of guys can't afford to have a set of heads trash what may be their only car.

If you want to make alot of power, a well ported set of bare 210's would be great. The trickflows are nice however considering the $, availability, and the fact that they'll move enough air to support around 560-590hp.

As far as combinations not making what they should, part of it is the flowbench racing people seem to like to do, and part that we've learned as we've begun dealing with more street packages is that there are just too many variables to worry about. We send packages all around the world to machineshops & individuals that may or may not know what they're doing, and unfortunately there's not alot you can do about it sometimes. This is compounded by the fact that people oftentimes purchase certain components at giants like summit or jegs, and alot of the time end up with a combination that is a bit mismatched to save $20. Add to that the fact that people seek advice from groups of people online where most (not all, some of you guys are great ) are just repeating what they've heard elsewhere... and they consider that as heavily as what a professional shop tells them... Your great setup's potential can get squelched in a hurry.

Good luck with your projects, nice to see alot of you guys are still actively helping out online - it's definitely an uphill battle

-Phil

 

Good stuff Phil and thank you for sharing.

You say with effort, you can get 300 cfm from the 195's and with a little less effort, 300 cfm from the 210's. Are you using the same size valves? The 195's have 2.02 while the 210's have 2.08 intake valves.

It's also my understanding that you will make much better power with smaller valves on two heads with identical flow numbers.

Lastly, I agree 110% about people with no first hand knowledge being "internet experts". Read one, do none and then teach others.

This is about the only list I will read as frankly some of the people on this list impress the hell out of me. Some of the other lists depress the hell out of me from lack of expertise.

For the most part you guys are pretty damn sharp.

 

Denny,

It's not too difficult to get 295-300cfm out of the 195's, I think you just have to be careful so it takes a little more time. Sometimes we've ran into porosity issues with the AFR's, so I try to keep the 195's in the ~290cfm peak range & focus on my midlift #'s. I know everyone wants to say "oh I have a 300cfm head" but most "300cfm" heads I've tested aren't anywhere near it, so I just tell them to tell everyone what they want or let the performance speak for itself . I usually put a 2.02 or 2.055" valve in them depending on what bore it'll be ran on, and 210's generally get 2.055 or 2.080" valves, though we've cut down some 2.080's to sort of split the difference in the past & they'll go "300+." I normally just try to figure out what someone's goals are & give them what they need to get the job done. If 290cfm will easily do it, I don't see a reason to push things. Of course alot of guys want as much power as possible

Those are of course numbers with normal valvejobs that have to actually last awhile as well as trying to be 'safe' as mentioned before since most 210's go to street applications. I have a set of 215rr's I need to hurry up and get on, but unfortunately I just haven't had time yet. Hopefully they will put up some impressive numbers

That's my experience with the stuff, YMMV

-Phil

 

I would like to see what you can do with those 215RR AFRs. I am pleased with my 210s even thought they were not bare casts when you run them.

As i recall from AFR they flow their heads as a batch always, but they use a 4.155 bore for their numbers. Since we use a 4.030 bore that is why we get a difference out of them than the factory. My heads as flowed by TEA and phil where not that far off than they advertise.. 280CFMs.