4L80E Swap
12-06-2002, 06:22 PM
#1
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Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Perryopolis, Pa
Posts: 520
4L80E Swap
Does anyone have experience with installing a 4L80E transmission in a 4th gen Camaro? It tends to dwarf even a TH400. Obviously the electronics must be aftermarket. What problems were encountered with floor clearance, trans mounts, cooler lines etc.? I have heard of a few doing this, but would like some firsthand comments. Thanks in advance.
Lonnie Pavtis
Lonnies Performance Automotive
www.westol.com/lpavtis
Lonnie Pavtis
Lonnies Performance Automotive
www.westol.com/lpavtis
12-07-2002, 09:55 AM
#3
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Location: Perryopolis, Pa
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Ellis,
Thought you vanished as well. I only see your posts on LT1 edit. No ICQ anymore? Not too often here either....
Helping customers takes most of my time & my own projects take a back seat to it all.
Looking at a new trans since a TH-400 with 4000 stall is not the most street efficient unit. Adding a lock-up converter & Gear Vendors overdrive to this starts to get into Lenco price territory. I figured I would try to use what already exists.
Lonnie
Thought you vanished as well. I only see your posts on LT1 edit. No ICQ anymore? Not too often here either....
Helping customers takes most of my time & my own projects take a back seat to it all.
Looking at a new trans since a TH-400 with 4000 stall is not the most street efficient unit. Adding a lock-up converter & Gear Vendors overdrive to this starts to get into Lenco price territory. I figured I would try to use what already exists.
Lonnie
12-07-2002, 11:04 AM
#4
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Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Pacific North West
Posts: 1,431
I hear you on that. Biggest problems with 4L80Es are they eat more HP.
I spend most my time deoing much of the same. I have taken a break from the LT1 edit list. New usefull info is hard to come by. I spend most my time on MSN messanger now. Most the people I know are on it and it transfers to my cell phone.
ICQ went down hill after AOL bought them
Good seeing you man!
I spend most my time deoing much of the same. I have taken a break from the LT1 edit list. New usefull info is hard to come by. I spend most my time on MSN messanger now. Most the people I know are on it and it transfers to my cell phone.
ICQ went down hill after AOL bought them
Good seeing you man!
12-09-2002, 10:39 PM
#5
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Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Perryopolis, Pa
Posts: 520
Hmmm....... I was hoping someone had done this.
There was a guy by the board name of "Mochanic" who I believe did this, but I can not get ahold of him. Anyone know of him or his whereabouts?
There was a guy by the board name of "Mochanic" who I believe did this, but I can not get ahold of him. Anyone know of him or his whereabouts?
12-10-2002, 12:49 AM
#6
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 908
I am very interested in this too. Here's the trans I have my eye set on: www.transmissioncenter.net/4L80E.htm
We need to make this thread as full of info as possible because a 4L80 swap would be awsome and there is practically NO info about this anywhere. As has already been stated, the trans tunnel is the main bottleneck. So, how do we get around this? Custom shorter engine mounts? Tranny cross bar? What about other restrictions? I guess we'll have to figure it out on our own so shoot out any ideas and info you think may help.
We need to make this thread as full of info as possible because a 4L80 swap would be awsome and there is practically NO info about this anywhere. As has already been stated, the trans tunnel is the main bottleneck. So, how do we get around this? Custom shorter engine mounts? Tranny cross bar? What about other restrictions? I guess we'll have to figure it out on our own so shoot out any ideas and info you think may help.
12-10-2002, 03:02 PM
#7
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Park Ridge, IL
Posts: 49
Obviously it isn't the same car, but I installed a 4L80E in my Vette, and it fit with no mods other than a new rear tranny mount and crossmember. The car originally came with a 700R4 and the 4L80E fit easily. It's about 4" longer than a 700R4, and the tailhousing is a little larger, but it fit.
I'm using the TCI T-Com tranny controller which is based off of the same architecture as the FAST/SpeedPro/Felpro EFI system, so it's very high quality and has proven to be very reliable. If you do not want to run a tranny controller, and like full manual shifts, Transgo has a kit for about $200 that makes the 4l80E fully manual and eliminates the need for a computer. Also, TCI among others, offers a valvebody which effectively turns the 4L80E into a 6 speed automatic by engaging the overdrive in additional gears. So you got many of the benefits of a GearVendors without needing a gear splitter unit.
I'm using the TCI T-Com tranny controller which is based off of the same architecture as the FAST/SpeedPro/Felpro EFI system, so it's very high quality and has proven to be very reliable. If you do not want to run a tranny controller, and like full manual shifts, Transgo has a kit for about $200 that makes the 4l80E fully manual and eliminates the need for a computer. Also, TCI among others, offers a valvebody which effectively turns the 4L80E into a 6 speed automatic by engaging the overdrive in additional gears. So you got many of the benefits of a GearVendors without needing a gear splitter unit.
12-10-2002, 05:37 PM
#8
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 908
How much different is the vette's tunnel than the F-body's? I've never personally messed with corvettes before. But people always say the tunnel would be the biggest hinderence in the f-body swap. What I want to know is how much? Would shorter mounts be enough? Or would the tunnel need some TLC with a torch and welder? Come on you big tech guys in here, let's have some opinions!!!
BTW Monty, I like your car
BTW Monty, I like your car
Last edited by Fast Caddie; 12-10-2002 at 05:40 PM.
12-10-2002, 10:06 PM
#9
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Thanks guys,
Now we are onto something.
Monty,
How is the converter working? What stall & what 60' & 1/4mi. times are you getting?
I'm concerned about the HP consumption of the transmission. Any chassis dyno figures to share? Rumor has it that a lock-up converter does not work quite as well as a more race oriented non-lock-up unit. Hoping you can disprove that theory. I'd like to have a 4000+ stall lock-up unit. Yes I want it all.....
Does a trans brake exist?
I saw the setup on gear splitting as well. Looks like a good idea for a truck or small peaky motor to keep revs up.
I don't think driving 30mi. each way to work with the converter cooking the fluid, the motor buzzing & wasting fuel is appropriate. Going to miss the 50% O.D. of the T-56, but not the broken input & output shafts.
My main objective is highway driving (while running in the low nines).
700R4 is great around, but lacking strength for 1000hp.
Powerglide is great at the track with big power, but sluggish on the street due to the lack of a deep first gear. (least power consumption of all automatics)
TH-400 is a good all around race trans but not "true street" oriented..... add $1200 front pump, a $800 lock-up converter, a $2600 gear Vendors O.D. & things get expensive & probably heavier than the 4L80E.
Lets keep the ideas rolling.
Now we are onto something.
Monty,
How is the converter working? What stall & what 60' & 1/4mi. times are you getting?
I'm concerned about the HP consumption of the transmission. Any chassis dyno figures to share? Rumor has it that a lock-up converter does not work quite as well as a more race oriented non-lock-up unit. Hoping you can disprove that theory. I'd like to have a 4000+ stall lock-up unit. Yes I want it all.....
Does a trans brake exist?
I saw the setup on gear splitting as well. Looks like a good idea for a truck or small peaky motor to keep revs up.
I don't think driving 30mi. each way to work with the converter cooking the fluid, the motor buzzing & wasting fuel is appropriate. Going to miss the 50% O.D. of the T-56, but not the broken input & output shafts.
My main objective is highway driving (while running in the low nines).
700R4 is great around, but lacking strength for 1000hp.
Powerglide is great at the track with big power, but sluggish on the street due to the lack of a deep first gear. (least power consumption of all automatics)
TH-400 is a good all around race trans but not "true street" oriented..... add $1200 front pump, a $800 lock-up converter, a $2600 gear Vendors O.D. & things get expensive & probably heavier than the 4L80E.
Lets keep the ideas rolling.
Last edited by Lonnie Pavtis; 12-10-2002 at 10:09 PM.
12-11-2002, 05:47 AM
#12
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Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Buffalo, New York
Posts: 10,745
Originally posted by Lonnie Pavtis
Thanks guys,
Now we are onto something.
Monty,
How is the converter working? What stall & what 60' & 1/4mi. times are you getting?
I'm concerned about the HP consumption of the transmission. Any chassis dyno figures to share? Rumor has it that a lock-up converter does not work quite as well as a more race oriented non-lock-up unit. Hoping you can disprove that theory. I'd like to have a 4000+ stall lock-up unit. Yes I want it all.....
Does a trans brake exist?
I saw the setup on gear splitting as well. Looks like a good idea for a truck or small peaky motor to keep revs up.
I don't think driving 30mi. each way to work with the converter cooking the fluid, the motor buzzing & wasting fuel is appropriate. Going to miss the 50% O.D. of the T-56, but not the broken input & output shafts.
My main objective is highway driving (while running in the low nines).
700R4 is great around, but lacking strength for 1000hp.
Powerglide is great at the track with big power, but sluggish on the street due to the lack of a deep first gear. (least power consumption of all automatics)
TH-400 is a good all around race trans but not "true street" oriented..... add $1200 front pump, a $800 lock-up converter, a $2600 gear Vendors O.D. & things get expensive & probably heavier than the 4L80E.
Lets keep the ideas rolling.
Thanks guys,
Now we are onto something.
Monty,
How is the converter working? What stall & what 60' & 1/4mi. times are you getting?
I'm concerned about the HP consumption of the transmission. Any chassis dyno figures to share? Rumor has it that a lock-up converter does not work quite as well as a more race oriented non-lock-up unit. Hoping you can disprove that theory. I'd like to have a 4000+ stall lock-up unit. Yes I want it all.....
Does a trans brake exist?
I saw the setup on gear splitting as well. Looks like a good idea for a truck or small peaky motor to keep revs up.
I don't think driving 30mi. each way to work with the converter cooking the fluid, the motor buzzing & wasting fuel is appropriate. Going to miss the 50% O.D. of the T-56, but not the broken input & output shafts.
My main objective is highway driving (while running in the low nines).
700R4 is great around, but lacking strength for 1000hp.
Powerglide is great at the track with big power, but sluggish on the street due to the lack of a deep first gear. (least power consumption of all automatics)
TH-400 is a good all around race trans but not "true street" oriented..... add $1200 front pump, a $800 lock-up converter, a $2600 gear Vendors O.D. & things get expensive & probably heavier than the 4L80E.
Lets keep the ideas rolling.
Have you considered T56 upgrades? I have been following the thread about a replacement main shaft made of "300M" as well as being aware of the possibility of fitting the Viper main shaft. Any thoughts?
I have looked into a Lenco. 1:1 is high gear, even if you do a five speed. So it would involve going to something like a 2.73 to get a gear ~=5th gear in the T56. A five speed Lenco would be in the $5K range, hard to fit, and rather brutal to drive. There is no engine braking except in the 1:1 gear. It freewheels and then hooks up hard when you get back on the gas. Same with every shift, it's like an "on/off" switch. You could probably learn to live with it, but it would be a challenge. The G-Force is similar. With either, I have no ideas on a VSS.
I think I am going to try some sort of upgrade to the T56 first, but if the 4L80E could be made to work, this might be a great option. Thanks for starting the thread.
Rich Krause
12-11-2002, 10:15 AM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5
hey bro! I put a 4L80E into my 96 trans am, its not to bad to do, are you putting a engine and trans in or just the tranny?? the first time I put it in, I put in the engine and tranny at the same time, I just tilted the engine back and droped it in, I put a jack under the tail shaft of the tranny and slid it back as I slowly lowered the engine down into the compartment at an angle, when I had the engine in place and close to the mounts, I jacked up the *** end of the tranny and bent the floor board up where there needed to be clearance. You will need to make a indention in the floor where the tranny cooler lines come out of the tranny, I just used a pry bar and bent the floorboard while prying against the tranny.
You will need to cut a hole in the floor board where the main computer connector goes, it is on the drivers side and there is not enough room between the tranny and the floor so it needs about a 2 inch hole in the the tranny tunnel right where the connector is on the tranny, I did this with the tranny already in so I could tell where it needed to be, there are two other small connectors that need to be ran to the tranny on the same side so I ran them through the same hole also.
I am a welder fitter so I fabed my own crossmember if you are seriouse about the swap and have access to a welder and a drill let me know, and I will tell you how to make one.
The first time I took the tranny out I cut off all the extra mounting brackets that are not in use, I think there was 4 of them, I would recommend doing this before installing, as it will make it easier to fit in your tranny tunnel, with those gone and the excess casting gone, other than the other mods I told you about with the cooler lines and the hole it will fit beutifull.
I am running a tci stand alone computer, and a 3600 precision industries stall, you will also need a yoke for a th400, and a custom length driveline, any other q's e-mail me at edge9999@mybluelight.com
You will need to cut a hole in the floor board where the main computer connector goes, it is on the drivers side and there is not enough room between the tranny and the floor so it needs about a 2 inch hole in the the tranny tunnel right where the connector is on the tranny, I did this with the tranny already in so I could tell where it needed to be, there are two other small connectors that need to be ran to the tranny on the same side so I ran them through the same hole also.
I am a welder fitter so I fabed my own crossmember if you are seriouse about the swap and have access to a welder and a drill let me know, and I will tell you how to make one.
The first time I took the tranny out I cut off all the extra mounting brackets that are not in use, I think there was 4 of them, I would recommend doing this before installing, as it will make it easier to fit in your tranny tunnel, with those gone and the excess casting gone, other than the other mods I told you about with the cooler lines and the hole it will fit beutifull.
I am running a tci stand alone computer, and a 3600 precision industries stall, you will also need a yoke for a th400, and a custom length driveline, any other q's e-mail me at edge9999@mybluelight.com
12-11-2002, 10:41 AM
#15
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Park Ridge, IL
Posts: 49
Thanks for the compliments guys.
Lonnie, the PI Vigilante works great for me. It's got a 3200rpm stall, with a 3-disc lockup. The 3-disc lockup clutch allows me to lockup the converter at WOT, or any other time. I haven't been to the track yet, so I don't ahve any 1/4 ET's or traps. Certainly the lockup converter improves efficiency by providing a direct connection between the engine and tranny - I've read reports that it's good for a couple mph improvements in trap speed.
I ahven't put the car on a chassis dyno yet, so I don't ahve any solid numbers to indicate drivetrain efficiency. I have heard the same thing about the 4L80E, it "eating" more power than other tranny's. That's probably true due to it's heavy duty design and intent, but I don't know what the actual numbers are. It's not an issue for me since I'm not really concerened with 1/4 mile performance, but it could be a concern for someone who is.
I do not know if there is a transbrake kit for the 4L80E yet, I haven't seen or heard of one, but I haven't looked for one either.
Speaking of the T56, I've been helping a guy with a similar twin turbo setup and he's using a T56 behind his 1000hp TT SBC and he loves it. He initally had a ROD6 and broke that, then looked into a Tremec TKO, G-Force, Jerico, etc and decided on a aftermarket T56. So far, it's working great fro him,. you might want to check out his site, http://www.jdhcon.com/vette . It's a C4 Corvette, but it will show some of the issues involved with installing one and making it work behind a 1000hp engine.
Lonnie, the PI Vigilante works great for me. It's got a 3200rpm stall, with a 3-disc lockup. The 3-disc lockup clutch allows me to lockup the converter at WOT, or any other time. I haven't been to the track yet, so I don't ahve any 1/4 ET's or traps. Certainly the lockup converter improves efficiency by providing a direct connection between the engine and tranny - I've read reports that it's good for a couple mph improvements in trap speed.
I ahven't put the car on a chassis dyno yet, so I don't ahve any solid numbers to indicate drivetrain efficiency. I have heard the same thing about the 4L80E, it "eating" more power than other tranny's. That's probably true due to it's heavy duty design and intent, but I don't know what the actual numbers are. It's not an issue for me since I'm not really concerened with 1/4 mile performance, but it could be a concern for someone who is.
I do not know if there is a transbrake kit for the 4L80E yet, I haven't seen or heard of one, but I haven't looked for one either.
Speaking of the T56, I've been helping a guy with a similar twin turbo setup and he's using a T56 behind his 1000hp TT SBC and he loves it. He initally had a ROD6 and broke that, then looked into a Tremec TKO, G-Force, Jerico, etc and decided on a aftermarket T56. So far, it's working great fro him,. you might want to check out his site, http://www.jdhcon.com/vette . It's a C4 Corvette, but it will show some of the issues involved with installing one and making it work behind a 1000hp engine.