+1

 

I chatted with Pete for an hour last night. sounds like a great event, and the GM cars did very well. Some of the LXs had some minor issues, but all in all, a great day.

The skid pad tests were quite remarkable!. 2 of the G8s with extreme Xas turned 1.03 and 1.05g's. Eric's Pedderized 300c turned .99g's on 20 inch street tires, and even our HHR with Xa'a turned a .97g. Our 2 Pedders drivers did a fantastic job.

Pete's G8 was 25 seconds faster than a Porsche with racing tires? More to come. This event, without a doubt, has shown that Pedders suspension, works well for the street, and the track!


these tests are great, and we now know what it takes to make a Camaro be able to pull over 1.0 g's

mike
dms
mike
dms

 

Try 8s! A couple of our Dealers are running IRS Vette's in the 8s with some upgrades to the powertrain including our engine and trans mounts. They also use our Drag Spec Coil Overs, Drag Rear Sway Bar (to tie the rear together and make it behave a bit more like a solid axle), and spherical control arm bearings.

Another interesting thing we've found is that under hard launches the IRS cars get a ton of toe-in causing scrub and ultimately MPH and E.T., this is where bushings are so important. The Camaro uses huge rubber bushings that work well for going to the grocery store but aren't so good for performance or spirited driving.

HERE is a link to a post done by East Coast Supercharging and HERE is a link to an IPS Motorsports thread.

I've had the opportunity to drive soild axle cars on the drag strip and road course as well as IRS cars; I have to say I love my old school muscle but the IRS performs better all around.

We're always happy to help with suspension and track set-up. We also have a very strong Dealer network including some of the best shops in the country. Please feel free to call or email us anytime and have a great day!

Kind regards,

Jordan

 

There are some additional challenges the Camaro offers in terms of handling that are not present with the G8. The Camaro has much more understeer than a G8. Adding monster tires to the back end without making other appropriate changes, will just add to the understeer concerns. I think the Camaro is heavier than the G8, but the big issue is the wheel base differences.

But the independant rear end is just fine and seriously handles better than a straight axle for a road race environment. The rear suspension assembly on a Camaro is seriously fine, and just needs some help reducing movements. Now adding 200-300hp at the rear wheels may require some updated heavy duty power train components, like axles, driveshafts, rear ends, etc, but the suspension link setup is quite excellent. Frank Beck of Rocksand Racing, one of our distributors is running a Pedders equipped IRS suspension in his GTO and he will be in the 8 second runs very shortly. He is in the low 9's now running at 62% throttle. Parachute is now installed and he can be back on the track and go for it. But he has highly modified ALL of the power train hardware with our Pedders bushings and coils and such. So even though a straight axle is superior to a IRS for drag racing, with the appropriate setups, IRS can work very well at the drags. It appears the biggest issues with the Vettes with some higher hp is in fact the rear end blowing apart. 2 years ago, there was a Vette/GTO drag event at Infinion Raceway. 3 Vettes got towed away for their rear ends blowing apart.

mike
dms

 

Does this also mean that compliance in the various brackets is being addressed? I've heard where suspension brackets aren't always as rigid as one might think, perhaps under 20,000 lb/in in extreme cases.


Norm

 

Hey Norm,

Not sure exactly what you mean by "suspension brackets" but if you mean what is traditionally called Sub frame connectors, then we can chat about these. Sub frame connectors are really popular for the older Camaros and even the new Mustangs because they both have a huge amount of twisting. Welding in subframe connectors with hi hp is necessary on these vehicles. With a Zeta Platform, however, sub frame connectors are not really needed unless maybe you are running some off the chart rear hp. Even the Hennessey Camaro that will have the ZR1 platform will not need them. they will, however, need all the bushings, updated coils and dampers to maximize on putting down the serious hp.

So do suspension brackets = subframe connectors?

Also, for very serious driving like autocrossing, road racing, etc, a strut tower bar is a must. The problem right now, however, is the placement of the hood shock does not allow room for them. GM Racing, put a strut tower bar on their GS Camaro, if you need some validation for this. But the ZETA platforms is one of the strongest platforms out there, and is vastly superior to the Mustang, that needs more brackets and subframe connectors than just about any other vehicle out there.

mike
dms

 

Based on our testing the factory suspension brackets are very strong and this wouldn't be a concern to me. We've run solid spherical bearings in these cars now during heavy track testing and we've got a 2010 Camaro that will be running in the NASA American Iron Series later this year into 2010. They are going to run with the factory pick up points for now and we'll probably end up developing a new subframe with altered Geometry for 2011.

 

Mike,

That's because it's a Ford!

Jordan

 

hey Jordon,

I have "played" with the new Mustang and am truly shocked by the movement when driving in a spirited manner. I am not that good of a driver, but if I can feel it, why don't the magazines feel it? Many of them rate the Mustang better than the Camaro. I totally disagree. I guess it is like politics; he who pays the most advertising money gets the lead. LOL

mike
dms

 

The Vette presents a unique set of issues. The engine is connected to the rear mounted trans and diff via the torque tube. There is a lot of deflection between the engine and the trans which caused those failures. We've developed engine and trans/diff mounts that have minimized the deflection and other companies have made braces that keep the trans and diff together. This is the latest product we've developed for the Vette's, the "next" weak link



The ECS Vette that we support suspension wise ran an 8.88 at 57%. The Corvette IRS record is 8.5? and ECS is expecting to crush that mark.

Jordan

 

Just like the F-150 even though the Silverado is twice the truck!

Jordan

 

No. I'm talking about the chassis brackets that the suspension pivot bolts pass through and locate the chassis sides of the various links. Depending on the actual details, these things may not be all that rigid, and might be moving by as much as 1/16" under heavy load. So what I was getting at is that just stiffening up the bushings or replacing them with rod ends is not always the complete solution. Apparently the new Camaro's local chassis structure is better in this case than in others. That <20,000 lb/in number is something I got from an OE automotive engineer on another forum, without a specific platform being identified.

The Fox/SN95/New Edge Mustangs are somewhere between damp and wet noodles in comparison to either the new Camaro or the S197, but I don't know how those last two cars compare.


Norm

 

You've got my curiosity going - would you describe this movement as the car being unusually sensitive to throttle steering while cornering hard?


Norm

 

There are 4 large bushings in mounting the cradle to the body. On a G8, there is as much as 13-15mm movement the cradle assembly will have from the body. the Camaro bushings are a little more robust but still need upgrading which Pedders will do. To do it right, we have sent an entire rear cradle to Pedders engineering in Au, to make sure it is done correctly. Other than the rear cradle bushings, and the lower outer control arm and sway bar bends, everything else is off the shelf Zeta. Pedders has done more testing on Zeta suspension, than I think GM has. Zeta has been in Au for 3 years now and Pedders does a huge amount of business with the Holden Dealers. If assembly is not correct, you can induce rear bump steer with this platform, so you do truly need some knowledge for sure. But the rear platform is an exceptionaly fine design. We just need to take the "gramma affect" soft ride controls, and allow you to take advantage of what she can do. Case in point is taking Pete's G8 from a .93g skid pad to a 1.05g skid pad. So we know how to do it.

thanks
mike
dms

 

Oh, but it's 300 pounds lighter. Now we know why.