I was thinking about the L76 as well. It makes sense from a cost perspective, since L76 volumes will be higher then LS3 with Holden, and the new North American rear drive cars. Chevy has to get the price tag close to Mustang if they want to compete, and putting the L76 in instead of the LS3 is probably a benefit event though there is a performance loss. I thought I saw the G8's L76 with closer to 380-390 hp, so that puts you closer to the 400hp mark. Has a new Corvette motor (LS3) ever appeared in the Camaro in the same year, or has there been a couple of year delay in the past? LS2 should be no more once LS3 is launched, and I can't see the Corvette guys sharing their new powertrain with the Camaro guys right away. So L76 is the base V8. We also know that Chevy is working on the LS9 for the Corvette, but their have been rumors about a smaller/detuned LS8. That would make the V6 (at whatever hp rating), the L76 as the base V8 (say Z28), and the LS8 (as the SS). As for the Mustang - Ford has seen the concepts that GM and Dodge are bringing to the table, both having 6.0L+ V8s for competition with the Mustang GT. Ford is digging their own grave if they don't up the performance of the Mustang to compete. The various mags (although often not completly accurate) are all saying that the Mustang will have an V8 option above the current GT but under GT500.

 

Why is that? They did it with the GTO and it seemed to work out just fine.


As for the volume-cost benefits of using the L76, I think the only way they will see any real cost benefit due to sheer volume would be if they use the L76 in all of the RWD cars other than the vette.

Even then, using the LS3 motor would also make sense for GM so they don't have to eat so much of the fixed costs on one product line (corvette). Using the LS3 in the Camaro would help to control the costs for both the Camaro and the Corvette.

 

Casull,
You are correct about the GTO and the Corvette in '05.
I'm just becoming a Chevy guy, so my history might be off, but I thought when Corvette got a new powertrain, it was normally a year or so before it appeared in the Camaro. Maybe I'm wrong, let me know.

As for the LS2 disappearing. Didn't LS1 disappear when LS2 was launched. I just can't see GM having 3 6.0L/6.2L naturally aspirated engines for cars alone (L76, LS2, LS3).

As for the cost benefit. I could see the L76 being the V8 option for all the North American rear drive vehicles (excluding Cadillac, as they have their own new engines coming). Would you agree that Camaro needs to get close to Mustang on price. Camaro has a brand new platform, Mustang has an established platform (I think they are planning some body changes but that's cheap in comparison). If Camaro can share it's base V8 with the premium V8 for the other platforms I think that a good cost to performance trade off. Otherwise where else are they going to make up for the cost of the platform.

 

The LS2 will go away with the introduction of the LS3. Also it would cost the same to put a midlevel V-8 into the Camaro as it would the dreaded 425 hp engine. GM wouldn't be able to offer a significant price drop for it so it would be pointless to even offer it. Anyway, I don't see any problem with a 425 hp Camaro that will be in the same price range as a 350ish hp Mustang.

 

I think GM will do it right. Ford just has a catastrophically bad year according to there profit numbers (or lack thereof). So coming out with a brand new Camaro that is similarly priced yet has 75 more hp and a better suspension is going to be devastating for ford. I know they will see this opportunity.

To quote President Nixon from Futurama "I like to Kickem while there down"

I don't see a problem with a lower power base V8, but i just hope it doesn't artificially inflate the 425hp one.

 

It might not cost more to put in the 6.2 vs the 6.0, but the 6.2 should include a lot more then just a bigger engine.
Brakes, suspension, seats, wheels, tires, other things that would seperate the Z28 as being a lot more then just a Camaro with a big engine. It needs to be a REAL Z28.
The problem with the GT500 is that outside of the engine...there isnt a lot else to marvel at. Everyone comments on the sloppy handling with the nose heavy body, and with that live axle, the car wont hug turns as well as it would with a well designed IRS. THIS is my biggest fear with Z28. It needs to be a lot more then just a slightly upgraded Camaro.

 

I don't scour this board frequently anymore, but I have read more than enough times from guys on here in "the know" that suggest that the 6.2 Camaro comes in at a Mustang GT pricepoint. I don't see why GM couldn't do it. I certainly don't want to see some crappy 360hp v8 in the Camaro in 2009.

It is ridiculous to think that if GM prices a 400-425hp Camaro directly against a 330-350hp Mustang GT, that they aren't going to advertise the hell out of that fact. I can't understand how some of you people on here still believe that it was "too much horsepower" that killed the 4th gens. Look at a 4th gen. Sit in a 4th gen. The car was too radical for the mass consumer. Most people don't even know what the hell horsepower is, let alone what it means. Hell, if the 5th gen comes in around 3700-3800lbs, even with 400hp it still isn't going to be world faster than an LS1 4th gen, and I haven't seen dead bodies of people thrown from crashed 4th gens littering the road. Prices have dropped pretty low on LS1 cars now, so they are pretty attainable to anyone who might want one, even young males.

My take on what happens when the 5th gen comes out: GM produces a car people love to look at, is relatively easy to live with as far as these kinds of cars go, and makes a decent quality v6 version for a change. The 400hp-ish v8 will just be icing on the cake to GM, and people will be talking about how great of a bargain it is. I am highly suspect people will be killing themselves left and right in these cars with 400hp 362hp is more than enough to get yourself killed with if you should desire. Hell, that much is not even necessary. The 5th gen is doomed Yeah, ok.

 

I really have to roll my eyes when people say 330-370hp is too low for a base V8. People have just gone HP insane--where anyting under 400 is considered weak, slow and way too low I just don't get that at all.

Isn't CAFE supposed to be going up? I certalinly cannot see why a 5.3L wouldn't beat the hell out of a 6.2L in that matter.

 

I havent gone through all the pages of this post, but my take on the benefit of L76 is the cylinders deactivation. I dont see why GM cannot have an affordable L76 V8 between the V6 and the "top dog". Dodge is doing it with the Charger, having 2 V6's and 2 V8's. There's abosultely nothing wrong with offering choices.

I'm at this junction right now with trying to pick my next ride. I really really dig the playfulness and fun'ness of being in the Charger R/T with the road and track package. Maybe even that Daytona package. However, I'm in a slight dilema. That SRT-8 charger can be attained with another few more thousand on top of the price of the Daytona or the R/T with Road/track package. I called my insurance company and the price difference between the 2 engine types is only $20 for the 6months. I'm also aware of the fuel economy difference between the 6.1Hemi (with no cylinder decativtion) compared to the 5.7Hemi. I really want the SRT8, and I certainly dont mind the 5.7hemi, which was still not slouch.

In the end, I've come to the conclusion that, at my age and where I'm at with kids and all, that I wont be utilizing all that SRT8 power most of the time. However, I'll be penalizing myself with poor fuel economy from driving around town most of the time. The 5.7Hemi just makes more economical sense to me, just for right now. Maybe in the future, I can always consider the SRT8 again.

sorry this is long winded, but I just want to point out that if this is how I'm thinking with regards to engine choices, that others will also. Give the customer a choice. I have no doubt that there will be plenty of people that wants to be seen in a Camaro with a V8, but dont necessary want the top dog. certainly enough that I wont even consider a Camaro V6 that can hang with a Mustang GT. I want that with a V8. GM will put another nail in the coffin for the Camaro if the next Camaro with the only V8 at 450'ish HP. where do you price this thing? at the Mustang GT (350'ish HP) ? That's unrealistic.

 

First of all, the car is going to be heavy. Most people seem to glaze over that when talking about horsepower numbers. 370hp is great an all, but not when it is dragging around 3700lbs. Mind you, a power-to-weight ratio of 10lbs:1hp is good, but it is pretty much in the area of the power-to-weight ratio of a 4th gen LS1. That isn't exactly progress. Second, it will almost be a new decade by the time this car comes out, and a 370hp performance v8 doesn't look that good. I certainly would not be impressed by a 6.0L v8 making 362hp now, let alone 2 or 3 years from now.

 

Why?

 

So let me get this straight... even if there is only one V8 Camaro (I seriously doubt that ever happening) it would be a bad thing if it had 100-hp more than the Mustang GT, even though it had an MSRP within $500 +/- of the Ford?

I just don't get it I guess.

 

Yeah, that is what I am not understanding either.

 

I could be missing the mark, but I read it as: he is skeptical that GM will be able to price a 450HP Camaro within a few hundred of a 350 HP Mustang...


If I am correct in assuming this, I disagree with it. Just becasue the LS3 puts out 450 HP doesn't mean it is necessarily more expensive to make than whatever the motor Ford will be using to get 350 HP. The LS3 will be a new motor, but it is still an LS block. That means the changes will be very minor over the LS2 or even LS1. The cost of producing this motor really hasn't changed a whole lot. There is no reason they can't position an LS3 Camaro within the same price range as a Mustang Premium GT.

 

Plus, historically Ford motors have always cost more than Chevies. Has that changed?