why not 425HP at a Mustang price?

 

Don't you young whooper-snappers realize that the 4th generation was the ONLY generation of the Camaro that DIDN'T have multiple V8 options, which included a mid-range V8.

1st Gen 327's, 350's, big blocks
2nd Gens, 307's, 350's, 400's (?), big blocks
3rd Gens, various iterations of the 305 and 350. In the late years, you could get a 305 throttle-body injected in a Camaro RS. This was an ENTRY LEVEL V8 CAMARO... It sat between the V6 Camaro and the Z28. It was a weak nut V8, but it was not considered bad for its time and it was definitely a lot more fun than the V6, as it had no hp but had gobs of low end torque. GM simultaneously offered a 2.8L V6, 305 throttle-body (RS), 305 tuned-port (Z28/IROC-Z 5-speed) and 350 tuned-port (Z28/IROC-Z automatic). My best friend had an '89 Firebird Formula with the 305 throttle body engine. The car looked super nice, clean, one of the best looking non-Trans-Am-Firebirds ever made and it had the lowly 305 throttle body motor in it. But you know what? It was still a V8 and it was still fun to drive.

Give me a base model, CLOTH seat, power-nothing, metal roof, '09 with a 360hp V8. Ford is talking about a 350hp V8 for the next Mustang. It would still beat that and it would have huge potential with cam/head work as usual, where the Mustang doesn't.

Here's an old scanned pic I dug up of my best friend's '89 Firebird Formula. It was used (he had it in 1993), but had 29,000 miles on it. It had "new car smell" when you opened the doors and the interior was as clean as a show car. I loved the flat dash, low seating position and red gauges that pointed straight down when at 0!



I say "entry V8" for 25-26k and it will make the cover of magazines as the best performance car bargain in history (since the LS1 Z28 of course)... then offer the 425+hp unit for around 33k to compete in the higher priced category.

-Michael

 

With as many engines as GM has in their arsenal, I don't know why they wouldn't want to offer multiple V8 options... I can't imagine that doing so would cost any more to manufacture, and it certainly would help to broaden the appeal.

 

Hopefully we will be getting a 400-ish hp LS3 and in the second year of production a 500hp LS8/9 to go after the top dog Mustang. Even if there is a big hp gap from the V6 to LS3, why is that such a bad idea? Shouldnt there be for having a more performance oriented package? Remember, you wont be paying for just a motor, but beefed up brakes, suspension, and drivetrain (hopefully) as well. Besides, you can pretty much bet on a 400hp Camaro for around the same price as a Mustang GT.

 

I just think that having more powertrain options will help make it appeal to more people. For example, if GM can indeed put out a 400+HP Camaro that is relatively close in price to a mustang GT, then why not put out a 300-350HP package that compares favorably to the mustang GT in power, but undercuts it in price by a few thousand. I think you would have a lot more people who are on the fence between the mustang and Camaro choose the Camaro....

 

well i have changed my mind...i agree now that there should be a mid level v8, but why have one that had nearly the same horsepower ratings as a v6??? my vote would be:
entry level v6 ~250hp
performance v6~300hp
mid level v8~360+ (has to beat mustangs 350)
performance v8~450
top dog~500-?

that would cover pretty much every level of buyer i hope

 

if it has to be the L67--I'd take it--rather have a 5.3L 330hp. Bottom line is we need a mid-level 300hp ish V8--thats very near the Mustang GT in price.

A for the base V6--I am not in favour of DI 300hp 3.6L--too much power for base. 255-260hp is enough.

 

My opinion on the matter is that a large amount of family sedans are getting the 255-260hp NOW. In 2 years, that may be pushed even a little higher.

Even if it's not, the Camaro is a 'sporty' car, so even in base for SHOULD have at least a little more than a 260hp family sedan. 285-310 would, imo, be ideal for a base sporty car so even those that can't afford a V8 can at least have the satisfaction that their Camaro has more 'oomph' than their parents sedan (2007 Camry V6 has 268hp).

Basically all Camaro/Mustang type vehicles should look to what the V6 sedans are getting, and have at least 25hp more.

 

well i agree, but that camry is like the top dog camry and the base camaro would still beat it with ~250-260 hp because RWD and better suspension setup

 

I think your missing something in your logic.....a mid sized family sedan with the optional, higher priced trim...has the high power V6 with more then 255hp.

So the question is...does the V6 Camaro need to be more powerful, faster ect then every single V6 family sedan??

I say no. There have lawyas been cases where the Camaros lower engines could be out powered by other cars---that are not even in competion or even in the segment.

Was it an issue then? Not that I can think of?

Want to stomp on Family V6 sedans?? Get the V8!

And taking a quick look---the Maxima and Camry (yawn) are the only ones I can think of with more the 260hp.

Loom at the Mustang...210hp! low 15/high 14 at best. There are more then a few V6 FWD family sedans that can beat that.....but I don't think anyone cares.

 

As usual a few points.

1) That 268 hp camry recently got awarded the second fastest vehicle under 25K. I hate to magazine race but Car and Driver got a 0-60 time of 5.8 and a quartermile of 14.3!!!

So how is this relevent?? I would, without a doubt, expect even the lowest model Camaro to be able to match or exceed those times.

2)Again, domestic cars already have an image problem and having your friend's moms $24K grocery getter/family car outrun your pony car is REDICULOUS regardless of trim.

3) Also, as i have said before, do not hold your breath for a stripper V8 model. Can you even get an Impala, Monte Carlo, or any other GM car with a V8 and cloth interior nowadays? (this is a question not a statement)

4) I'm all for multiple engine options, heck, it will make my 425hp Camaro rarer and more iconic. BUT, I am not for a 240hp budget Camaro that gets a gazillion miles to the gallon but cant even turn over the tires and does is at best a 15 second car.

They did it with the Cadillacs and the 2.8 so its not like they havent tried this stunt before.

 

I agree with all of your points except the one above. The majority of people who will be in the market for a Camaro are not concerned about turning over the tires or 1/4 mile times. They will be like every other person who has purchased a V-6 pony car in the past. They want a sporty looking car that has descent power and descent gas milage.

I could care less if GM offers a Camaro that can not spin the tires, does the 1/4 in 20 seconds and gets 50 mpg as long as my Camaro can burn the tires and run a 1/4 mile in the low 12's upper 11's; also if that kind of Camaro will sell in numbers, then i am all for it as I don't want to see the Camaro killed off again.

 

I completely understand. But don't get me wrong, i'm ALL for an affordable V6 camaro, all i'm saying is that it needs to be a somewhat competent performer. I mean, its still a pony car afterall.

We know that it will probably cost GM the same amount of money to make a 300hp V6 as it would a 240hp V6, so surely cost is not a factor. I doubt that the 30-60 extra hp will really make insurance rates that much higher (but i could be wrong)

Here are "LandonElf's Minimum requirements for the cheapest V6 5th gen Camaro"

0-60- 6.2 seconds or less
1/4- 14.7 seconds or less
HP- 250 (don't care as long as performance times are good ie lotus)
TQ-260 (ditto)
Price- 19,999

These numbers should be realistically obtained with a good driver even with an automatic. With this the car will at least be in the territory of pretty much all of the family sedans and coupes on the market.

 

I guess I see where you are coming from. If they only offer one V-6, then i don't think it should be some low level 200HP motor.... it should certainly meet the requirements you just described. However, if they offer 2 V-6s, then I don't know why one of them should not be a "value" v-6, especially if it gets amazing gas milage, just to appeal to the people who could care less about performance and just want style.

As I said before though, I don't really care because i am not in the market for a V-6.... I want the 425+ HP V-8 baby!!!!

 

don't think we have to wrroy about that. GM only has 1 V6 (passenger car) configured for RWD. The 3.6L---and it won't be anyting less then 255, IMO.

I agree with LandonElf on the performance of the V6 but I doubt it needs a 300hp DI to do it.