Yet another direction for the Z28 possibility?
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From: Richmond, TX
And even if they can only get 80lbs out with simple upgrades like I listed, the combined performance of that with the big 7.0 is something worth doing and selling.
I even left out a lightweight drycell battery which is about 20lbs vs 40lbs.
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From: Annapolis MD
I am so torn on this, but I see where you're coming from, and really don't disagree. If I thought that this car could have an effective Z/28 package, which respects it's heritage, could outperform it's competitors, and be a business and marketing success, I'd be all for it. In fact, for those who've been around here long enough to know me, you know I'd carry out a forceful campaign for a Z/28.
Like someone posted earlier, Chevrolet has sort of painted itself in a corner here.
Like someone posted earlier, Chevrolet has sort of painted itself in a corner here.
In my eyes GM nailed it. I dont see any corner. I agree the SS is a sweet package. BUT IMO one of MANY possible solutions....
SS 1LE adding
- Pedders XA adjustable suspension that Jason went with.
- Stronger rear sway bar
- Ducktail spoiler
- possibly painted black recess to headlights (like the LS7 Camaro concept I think)
Z28 standard with SS 1LE options PLUS
- Long tube headers
- Cam
- Tune (We've seen close to 500 dyno'ed with cam and headers)
- CAI ran to the front open grill(Ala, concealed Ram air in that big open grill)
- Front Brake cooler vent run through one of the front openings.
- Rear Brake cooler run through the Shark Gills like the concept (If feasible.)
- Stronger rear if needed
Not only do I think GM didnt paint itself into a corner. IF because of the ecnomy a Z28 and or 1LE wasnt doable, as mentioned earlier the SS is a sweet package leaving room for a Z28 later... Thats my take.
Last edited by 5thgen69camaro; Aug 4, 2009 at 06:38 PM.
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From: Chicagoland IL
Anyway, I DO NOT think it's lacking in the areas of power, braking, etc.
Yet, most comparos with the Track Pack Mustang have it losing, eventhough GM has thrown it's best parts at this car for it's price point. So, how do you beat Mustang? How do you beat Mustang with a 5.0L? Adding all of the AFTERMARKET parts you mentioned would be neat, but I'm no so sure it's realistic.
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From: Annapolis MD
Just a little ribbing...Yet, most comparos with the Track Pack Mustang have it losing, eventhough GM has thrown it's best parts at this car for it's price point. So, how do you beat Mustang? How do you beat Mustang with a 5.0L? Adding all of the AFTERMARKET parts you mentioned would be neat, but I'm no so sure it's realistic.
Maybe my combo ideas arent realistic, but I think it would make one hell of a road car. And to be honest I probably couldnt afford the result. It just seemed to be my idea of a best bang for your buck road car, and one of many possible combo directions. Kinda, if I could and if it were MY money...
Im also unfamiliar with what the track pack is. Stiff springs and grippy tires? If so you can do that to any car.
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From: SoCal
I am so torn on this, but I see where you're coming from, and really don't disagree. If I thought that this car could have an effective Z/28 package, which respects it's heritage, could outperform it's competitors, and be a business and marketing success, I'd be all for it. In fact, for those who've been around here long enough to know me, you know I'd carry out a forceful campaign for a Z/28.
Like someone posted earlier, Chevrolet has sort of painted itself in a corner here.
Like someone posted earlier, Chevrolet has sort of painted itself in a corner here.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,463
From: SoCal
Well, that would CERTAINLY be a hardcore, limited production car then - because nobody wants a completely stripped $45,000 performance car. How many 2000 R's did Ford make, 300? Shoot, even the Z06 gets frills like a radio, HUD, etc....I think a Z28 that takes such a "gutted" approach would be utterly pointless.
Yeah, you've got a car that will run with a GT500 - but it's a shell compared to a similarly priced GT500.
Yeah, you've got a car that will run with a GT500 - but it's a shell compared to a similarly priced GT500.
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From: Sterling Heights, MI
I believe Chevy lists the SS auto at 3920, but I don't believe it makes much of a difference anyway.
Again, the only way to get real, meaningful weight out of the car is re-engineering the structure. That's where the weight is. Ok, maybe you drop a few pounds with tricks like a lighter battery, titanium exhaust (an 18 pound improvement on the C5 Z06) and such, but in the end you'll still have a relative porker. Look, we have a precident here - the C6 Z06's all-aluminum frame saved 160 pounds. How you think you'll be able to lighten parts like batteries and exhaust in Camaro to get to -160 (realistically now, not just throwing out theoretical weight savings), I am still not sure....
Again, the only way to get real, meaningful weight out of the car is re-engineering the structure. That's where the weight is. Ok, maybe you drop a few pounds with tricks like a lighter battery, titanium exhaust (an 18 pound improvement on the C5 Z06) and such, but in the end you'll still have a relative porker. Look, we have a precident here - the C6 Z06's all-aluminum frame saved 160 pounds. How you think you'll be able to lighten parts like batteries and exhaust in Camaro to get to -160 (realistically now, not just throwing out theoretical weight savings), I am still not sure....
Last edited by Z28Wilson; Aug 5, 2009 at 07:57 AM.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Richmond, TX
I believe Chevy lists the SS auto at 3920, but I don't believe it makes much of a difference anyway.
Again, the only way to get real, meaningful weight out of the car is re-engineering the structure. That's where the weight is. Ok, maybe you drop a few pounds with tricks like a lighter battery, titanium exhaust (an 18 pound improvement on the C5 Z06) and such, but in the end you'll still have a relative porker. Look, we have a precident here - the C6 Z06's all-aluminum frame saved 160 pounds. How you think you'll be able to lighten parts like batteries and exhaust in Camaro to get to -160 (realistically now, not just throwing out theoretical weight savings), I am still not sure....
Again, the only way to get real, meaningful weight out of the car is re-engineering the structure. That's where the weight is. Ok, maybe you drop a few pounds with tricks like a lighter battery, titanium exhaust (an 18 pound improvement on the C5 Z06) and such, but in the end you'll still have a relative porker. Look, we have a precident here - the C6 Z06's all-aluminum frame saved 160 pounds. How you think you'll be able to lighten parts like batteries and exhaust in Camaro to get to -160 (realistically now, not just throwing out theoretical weight savings), I am still not sure....
3920 is the auto, 3860 is the manual.
And you keep going back to the vette. Well the vette was already a $50K sports car with all the high tech and lightweight that $50K buys you. In other words it's already highly optimized. Of course it's going to be a bitch to strip out another 100lbs on a car like that.
The Camaro is a car with a lot of cheaper and heavier components in it.
Hell there's probably a 15lb weight differential between the C6 power seat and the Camaro's.
The LSA Z/28 is another route with no money spent on weight reduction. You still end up with a low-mid $40K car.
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From: City of Champions, MA, USA
Sign me up, I'll take one. I don't understand how everyone gets all nostalgic about the Z/28 saying it shouldn't get a LSA because that is not true to its heritage. Yet I have seen people say that V-8's are dying and to get used to 4 and 6 cylinder engines. Why doesn't that logic apply to the 4 and 6 bangers? Why not send what could be some of our last V-8's out with a bang?
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From: SeVa
Lol, us poor back assward Mustang guys, we're so adamant about our V8s Ford has said the GT will still have a V8 for the foreseeable future (one can take that how they want - but at the very least Ford sees some value in maintaining a "base" V8 car).
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From: SoCal
Well I don't see the V8 dying anytime soon either. I'm sure direct injection, displacement on demand and probably a reduction in cubic inches will probably happen but there will still be a need for them. Cars like the Mustang at Ford and the Corvette at GM will still need a performance variant even if they share parts with truck V8's. That's when it's good to be the Camaro and get hand me down V8 power!
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From: Oakland, California
Propulsion for the remainder of the 2009 ALMS season comes from a downsized 6.0-liter version of the 7.0-liter V8 that has been running in the GT1 car. The bore size remains the same, with the primary change being a shorter stroke crankshaft. For 2010, some new engine rules in GT2 will mean an all-new engine for the Corvette. Come Sebring next March, the GT2 Vettes will be running a new 5.5-liter V8 based on the next-generation version of the GM small block. Unlike the GT1 engines, the engines for the new cars will be assembled on the line at the GM Performance Powertrain Center alongside the production LS9 and LSA used in the ZR1 and Cadillac CTS-V.
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=703279
I'm not suggesting the exact GT2 Vette motor be moved over, however why not a detuned "street" version for a production Z/28?
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Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Chicagoland IL
I moved this over from another thread on the new C6.R GT2 racecar, because it appears relevant to this discussion.
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=703279
I'm not suggesting the exact GT2 Vette motor be moved over, however why not a detuned "street" version for a production Z/28?
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=703279
I'm not suggesting the exact GT2 Vette motor be moved over, however why not a detuned "street" version for a production Z/28?
That would be cool.
This is the current 6.0L engine, note the fairly exotic intake. Has Z/28 written all over it if you ask me.
The 5.5L will apparently be developed from the Gen V smallblock. Can't wait to see what it's got.
Anyway, it's a pipedream, since the Camaro Team already told us at Indy, not to expect any new engine technology, (beyond what it already has), on this Camaro.
Last edited by Z284ever; Aug 6, 2009 at 05:23 PM.
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