Why the ripped off retro look...Where do you go down the road? 70's again
11-27-2006, 12:36 PM
#46
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Maybe I just don't like the word "retro". The PT Cruiser is "retro" yet it isn't styled after any one car in particular. The Camaro has "heritage styling" but it isn't as "retro" as the Mustang or Challenger. Are there degree's of "retroness"? Perhaps. To me, the word "retro" has gone from "cool" a few years ago to "dated" today. I don't think the new Camaro looks "dated", where as the Mustang and Challenger do IMHO. That's why I perfer the the term "heritage styling".
First gen influence? Yes. Dated? No.
P.S. Although I said the Mustang and Challenger are "dated" that doesn't mean I don't like them. Just not as much as I like the Camaro.
First gen influence? Yes. Dated? No.
P.S. Although I said the Mustang and Challenger are "dated" that doesn't mean I don't like them. Just not as much as I like the Camaro.
i think we basically agree and are just arguing semantics... i agree the Camaro is certainly not dated.. and other retro cars are...
11-28-2006, 03:54 AM
#47
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I didnt have time to browse through all four pages of this thread, so what Im about to write could have been said before, but regardless, I think I will go ahead and put in my two cents.
Yes, the Camaro is retro, not completely retro, but retro nonetheless. In fact, if you think about it if you went back in time to 1969 and showed everyone this version of the Camaro, people would see it as a very futuristic car, probably being very happy that the Camaro would someday morph into this form. That might have been a bad example, so I will approach it from another angle...there are a lot of cars today that are very retro or at least have retro styling cues, and yet no one calls them retro vehicles. Just for example, the Porsche 911 has not changed significantly in decades. Why? They have a great formula that shant be dabbled with too much. And hey, I wouldnt call the Porsche retro, it just has a heritage that has nothing wrong with it. Its "timeless" if you will. And then you have the Lamborginis. Now, some might disagree with me, but somebody out there has to admit that Lamborginis have a pretty repetitive styling scheme. But I am not protesting one bit because they have the right formula, it works, and they update that basic shape enough to make it stand out more for a generation (80s Countach, 90s Diablo, 00s Murch...Murchiag...I dont remember how to spell it, you get the point). Aston Martin, while not relying too heavily on the sixties, still used the original DB as inspiration Id bet you because I just saw Casino Royale and there was both a classic and a modern DB in it and you can totally see some simularities. Nissan's Z has a throwback design to it, if you want to call it that, but I again just call it a timeless look that looks just as good today, refreshened of course, as the day it debuted decades back. Same with Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar, and others that shamelessly hold on to a timeless heritage design that should not just be scooted over something else. The same goes for the Camaro AND the Mustang. They both have distinct heritage that makes them genuinely independent. Both tried new design directions after the 60s and quite honestly, no new design that they ever tried ousted the orignal. The 1960s Mustang and Camaro are two of the cars that got me IN to cars, and I never had much intrest in any of the Camaros or Mustangs that came later...even the late 90s models. But now they are doing just what Porsche and Lamborgini do, they are just doing adaptations on a simular design, and I really think it works.
You ask what Camaro will do once the 5th generation's clock is up and it is time for a whole new generation. I frankly am not that worried. If they actually do go for the whole Porsche method and try to stick to a more familiar Camaro then there are many different variations that they can go like Lamborgini has (they just keep getting sharper and cleaner dont they? lol). I read an article that I think Motor Trend did about the Mustangs soon-to-be facelift and eventually all new model come 2010. They provided a few pictures and renderings of what they thought one would look like, and let me tell ya, WOW. One of the renderings that Motor Trend did was a wild departure from the current model, and yet it still looked genuinley like a Mustang. I personally was impressed, and Im not saying that Ford will go off of that rendering, but it is an example of just how far they can go on basically simular design. IT CAN BE DONE. Now, if Ford and Chevy (and Dodge) decide to go in a different direction, I highly doubt that it will be of the seventies because that was pretty bad era for one, and two it looks like the big three have gotten their imagination back and could go to places with the pony car that we never even thought of. Im still betting that they will update and sharpen the original "timeless" design.
Yes, the Camaro is retro, not completely retro, but retro nonetheless. In fact, if you think about it if you went back in time to 1969 and showed everyone this version of the Camaro, people would see it as a very futuristic car, probably being very happy that the Camaro would someday morph into this form. That might have been a bad example, so I will approach it from another angle...there are a lot of cars today that are very retro or at least have retro styling cues, and yet no one calls them retro vehicles. Just for example, the Porsche 911 has not changed significantly in decades. Why? They have a great formula that shant be dabbled with too much. And hey, I wouldnt call the Porsche retro, it just has a heritage that has nothing wrong with it. Its "timeless" if you will. And then you have the Lamborginis. Now, some might disagree with me, but somebody out there has to admit that Lamborginis have a pretty repetitive styling scheme. But I am not protesting one bit because they have the right formula, it works, and they update that basic shape enough to make it stand out more for a generation (80s Countach, 90s Diablo, 00s Murch...Murchiag...I dont remember how to spell it, you get the point). Aston Martin, while not relying too heavily on the sixties, still used the original DB as inspiration Id bet you because I just saw Casino Royale and there was both a classic and a modern DB in it and you can totally see some simularities. Nissan's Z has a throwback design to it, if you want to call it that, but I again just call it a timeless look that looks just as good today, refreshened of course, as the day it debuted decades back. Same with Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar, and others that shamelessly hold on to a timeless heritage design that should not just be scooted over something else. The same goes for the Camaro AND the Mustang. They both have distinct heritage that makes them genuinely independent. Both tried new design directions after the 60s and quite honestly, no new design that they ever tried ousted the orignal. The 1960s Mustang and Camaro are two of the cars that got me IN to cars, and I never had much intrest in any of the Camaros or Mustangs that came later...even the late 90s models. But now they are doing just what Porsche and Lamborgini do, they are just doing adaptations on a simular design, and I really think it works.
You ask what Camaro will do once the 5th generation's clock is up and it is time for a whole new generation. I frankly am not that worried. If they actually do go for the whole Porsche method and try to stick to a more familiar Camaro then there are many different variations that they can go like Lamborgini has (they just keep getting sharper and cleaner dont they? lol). I read an article that I think Motor Trend did about the Mustangs soon-to-be facelift and eventually all new model come 2010. They provided a few pictures and renderings of what they thought one would look like, and let me tell ya, WOW. One of the renderings that Motor Trend did was a wild departure from the current model, and yet it still looked genuinley like a Mustang. I personally was impressed, and Im not saying that Ford will go off of that rendering, but it is an example of just how far they can go on basically simular design. IT CAN BE DONE. Now, if Ford and Chevy (and Dodge) decide to go in a different direction, I highly doubt that it will be of the seventies because that was pretty bad era for one, and two it looks like the big three have gotten their imagination back and could go to places with the pony car that we never even thought of. Im still betting that they will update and sharpen the original "timeless" design.
11-28-2006, 10:49 AM
#48
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I think the current design is the prefect form to resurrect the “Camaro” name. It pays homage to Camaro’s illustrious past while still remaining modern in design and stature. Sure it plays on heritage styling cues and can be considered somewhat “retroesque”, however no one would mistake it for a complete redo circa 1969.
However just because “this Camaro” pays homage to 1969, does not mean the 6th gen needs to honor the 2nd gen; nor the 7th gen honor the 3rd gen; etc. so on and so forth. This could be the starting point that future generations base themselves on. This design can further be transformed and refined as need be.
Somewhere along the line, Camaro and GM lost their way. This should be the rebirth and resurrection of a true pony car. The same mistakes need not be made again.
However just because “this Camaro” pays homage to 1969, does not mean the 6th gen needs to honor the 2nd gen; nor the 7th gen honor the 3rd gen; etc. so on and so forth. This could be the starting point that future generations base themselves on. This design can further be transformed and refined as need be.
Somewhere along the line, Camaro and GM lost their way. This should be the rebirth and resurrection of a true pony car. The same mistakes need not be made again.
11-28-2006, 04:30 PM
#49
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This could be the starting point that future generations base themselves on. This design can further be transformed and refined as need be.
Somewhere along the line, Camaro and GM lost their way. This should be the rebirth and resurrection of a true pony car. The same mistakes need not be made again.
Somewhere along the line, Camaro and GM lost their way. This should be the rebirth and resurrection of a true pony car. The same mistakes need not be made again.
12-02-2006, 02:18 AM
#51
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[QUOTE=MarcR94v6;4033264]This Camaro is one of the least retro generations. While the 4th was obviously futuristic looking, it seemed to me to be a reflection of the 70's 2nd generation Camaros. Just because it actually looks like a Camaro, doesn't mean it's retro. Just my opinion
Ive always seen the gen2 resemblence mainly in the lS1 4th gen cars. hoodlines mainly.
Im excited to see what ford comes up with to RETRO-IZE the mustang II
Ive always seen the gen2 resemblence mainly in the lS1 4th gen cars. hoodlines mainly.
Im excited to see what ford comes up with to RETRO-IZE the mustang II
12-10-2006, 11:32 AM
#54
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More so in the 98 and up front end, than the LT1 front end like ours. The 98 front end, has some resemlance to the early 2nd gens if you look at em' side by side. And the taillights are a flashback to the 76 and up tailights IMO! Obviously not as much as the 5th gen ressembles the 69 but I see it..
Last edited by SCNGENNFTHGEN; 12-10-2006 at 11:35 AM.
12-16-2006, 09:26 PM
#57
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Okay I must vent here.
If you look at the transition of the Corvette from C5 to C6 you will see that the design in and out gets more futuristic, modern and missile like. That just seems to be the natural way of newer things regardless if its cars or toaster ovens.
I think that the retro look is looks good at a glance, but I think that the interest will be short lived. I am very anxious to see how Ford handles the first refresh of the Mustang down the road.
So if the Camaro arrives in 09, my question is where do you go from there. Traditionally there is a refresh of some kind every 6 years or so. So does the 60's look morph into the 70's look and so on. Personally I was never a fan of 70's or 80's styling, but thats just me. I still think that the third gen to the fourth gen Camaro styling set the bar pretty darn high.
I know there 60's Camaro on steroids will sell big, but I don't think its good for the overall longevity of the revived car we love so much. Again history will tell.
Regardless of the new Camaros appearance, I have no issues period with the LS2. Way to go GM
If you look at the transition of the Corvette from C5 to C6 you will see that the design in and out gets more futuristic, modern and missile like. That just seems to be the natural way of newer things regardless if its cars or toaster ovens.
I think that the retro look is looks good at a glance, but I think that the interest will be short lived. I am very anxious to see how Ford handles the first refresh of the Mustang down the road.
So if the Camaro arrives in 09, my question is where do you go from there. Traditionally there is a refresh of some kind every 6 years or so. So does the 60's look morph into the 70's look and so on. Personally I was never a fan of 70's or 80's styling, but thats just me. I still think that the third gen to the fourth gen Camaro styling set the bar pretty darn high.
I know there 60's Camaro on steroids will sell big, but I don't think its good for the overall longevity of the revived car we love so much. Again history will tell.
Regardless of the new Camaros appearance, I have no issues period with the LS2. Way to go GM
I happened to love the 3rd gen Camaros...Especially the IROC's...I'm not a big fan of the new Camaros coming out though. My dad used to own a 81 Z28 that was the 2nd gen styling and that car was sweet and I also owned a 90 IROC-Z Camaro with the 350 TPI and that car was pretty damn fast
12-19-2006, 01:16 AM
#58
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I think FS3800 got to this before me...but if Ford's possible Italian Mustang looks as it does and is based on a retro look.....we have nothing to worry about in the next Camaro redesign, especially since it wouldn't be based off a retro one in the first place.
12-19-2006, 01:40 AM
#59
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huh? Are you suggesting the next redesign Camaro have no cues from the concept or any retro ques and that will be better than a mustang with retro cues? I keep rereading this to try to understand.
12-19-2006, 02:41 AM
#60
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To understand my response, it is probably crucial to understand that I do not feel that the Camaro concept is retro.
My message was intended for the original poster who fears there is no way to progress from the concept. I was saying look at the possible Italian styling of the next Stang redesign -- it was based off of their current retro model, and they were able to move forward without going down the same path as before and improved on their current model (IMO)....
Because of this, I feel that the next Camaro redesign surely wouldn't go down the same path as before, especially because the concept itself isn't retro. (I didn't have any worries before...but just wanted to share my thoughts with those that do worry)
Once again, this was intended for the initial poster, who feared there is no way to move forward since in his opinion the concept is retro -- but Ford IMO DID move forward on the Mustang redesign, so we should have no worries at all.
I don't know how to try to explain myself any clearer - maybe someone else can say it better. Sorry for the confusion.
Last edited by fredmr39; 12-19-2006 at 02:45 AM.